P38A P38 2.5 dse engine noise?

BDC said:

Hi Guys,

So far so good, the new engine is running fine no odd noises or anything so very pleased with it.

However I find it is very smelly and smoky (white grey). I think it is running a bit rich.

Temperature is stable at idle or driving so no overheating.

Idle is set at 750 rpm
Injection setting in nanocom is at 128
Modulation can be better it’s 78%

I’ve been reading up a bit about the fip.

There is the rotational movement and than there’s the top section of the fip which can be moved forward or backwards slightly.

But I’m a bit confused, in which instance should what be done? rotation is to adjust timing modulation I think and the other to change the quantity of fuel injected right?

Fuel Current quantity is @7,5 - 7,75 at idle.
I’ve read it should be between 5-6mg/.. is that correct?

I also didn’t get the bolts out for the bumper bulbar. I finally managed with a bit of persuasion. So new condenser and dryer are in.

Click to expand...

Unless it has been moved, do not move the top section of the FIP. Modulation is adjusted by rotating the FIP on it's mountings. The sensor for the engine ECU is not the same as the one for the gauge. If the engine temp sensor is not working it will be running on cold settings. Check to see if a cold start mod has been fitted. Does you engine have the plastic manifold and a MAF?
Idle is a bit low IMO.
The white smoke may just be condensation in the exhaust if it has not run for some time.
I can give you a simple method of adjusting the FIP to get the modulation correct.

Datatek said:

Unless it has been moved, do not move the top section of the FIP. Modulation is adjusted by rotating the FIP on it's mountings. The sensor for the engine ECU is not the same as the one for the gauge. If the engine temp sensor is not working it will be running on cold settings. Check to see if a cold start mod has been fitted. Does you engine have the plastic manifold and a MAF?
Idle is a bit low IMO.
The white smoke may just be condensation in the exhaust if it has not run for some time.
I can give you a simple method of adjusting the FIP to get the modulation correct.

Click to expand...

Originally the engine has the metal inlet, however i changed the engine with another one that had an egr valve fitted. Mine hasn’t, I did not want to drill holes in the head to accommodate the metal inlet on the new head so I drilled a hole in the plastic inlet and I inserted a nut to accommodate the air intake sensor. The nut is held in place with Liquid Metal and sealed sup nicely.

Adjusting the modulation, will it have a big effect on the exhaust smoke and smell? If there to much unburnt fuel it will continue to smoke and smoke not?

When I built the engine I used the dial gauge because the engine was out. I did not check timing again with the engine installed and able to run.

BDC said:

Originally the engine has the metal inlet, however i changed the engine with another one that had an egr valve fitted. Mine hasn’t, I did not want to drill holes in the head to accommodate the metal inlet on the new head so I drilled a hole in the plastic inlet and I inserted a nut to accommodate the air intake sensor. The nut is held in place with Liquid Metal and sealed sup nicely.

Adjusting the modulation, will it have a big effect on the exhaust smoke and smell? If there to much unburnt fuel it will continue to smoke and smoke not?

When I built the engine I used the dial gauge because the engine was out. I did not check timing again with the engine installed and able to run.

Click to expand...

I found it nigh on impossible to get the modulation correct with the DTI method.
Getting the modulation right is unlikely to affect the smoke but a duff temperature sensor would as I said before.
Is it actually firing on all 6 cylinders?

Datatek said:

I found it nigh on impossible to get the modulation correct with the DTI method.
Getting the modulation right is unlikely to affect the smoke but a duff temperature sensor would as I said before.
Is it actually firing on all 6 cylinders?

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I suppose it does run on all 6 cilinders. The engine has been partially overhauled.

I changed:

Connecting rod bearings
Piston rings
All oil seals and gaskets
New chains guides and tensioner
New vibration dampener
Thermostat water pump turbo hoses etc
I removed all valves And lapped the seats and valves and installed new valve seals
Head gasket and bolts replaced
New valve tappets

I recovered camshaft bolt, injection pump and temp sensors.

The injectors i send to overhaul, injector 4 is new.

Before I started the engine I removed the fuel pump relay to prime the engine with oil.
I also jumpered the fuel relay to prime the fip so I could see fuel arrive and remove the air from the fip and injector hard lines.

There is no alteration to modify the starting behaviour cold or hot.

Which temp sensor is it for the Ecu the one closest to the fip?

Sensors are different depending on which head you have and if you have AC

Early metal inlet engines only have 2 sensors either brown/blue and a green. Plus IAT sensor.

Later plastic manifold models have 3sensors blue green and black. IAT is not fitted it’s function is replaced by a preset figure in the ECU

Green is always the ECU sender unit.

BDC said:

I suppose it does run on all 6 cilinders. The engine has been partially overhauled.

I changed:

Connecting rod bearings
Piston rings
All oil seals and gaskets
New chains guides and tensioner
New vibration dampener
Thermostat water pump turbo hoses etc
I removed all valves And lapped the seats and valves and installed new valve seals
Head gasket and bolts replaced
New valve tappets

I recovered camshaft bolt, injection pump and temp sensors.

The injectors i send to overhaul, injector 4 is new.

Before I started the engine I removed the fuel pump relay to prime the engine with oil.
I also jumpered the fuel relay to prime the fip so I could see fuel arrive and remove the air from the fip and injector hard lines.

There is no alteration to modify the starting behaviour cold or hot.

Which temp sensor is it for the Ecu the one closest to the fip?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about the smell & smoke for the moment, it may just be stuff accumulated in the CAT and silencers that will disappear with a decent run. Why did you have to replace the engine?

I replaced the engine because I could not determine the root cause for a knocking sound the engine produced. I haven't opened the old engine yet to check what's wrong with it. The engine also had several oil leaks an was a bit tired after +300k km.
Also the chains required a change but they produced another more rattling noise.

What's funny with the old engine I have also found it to be to smelly and smoky but I didn't think much of it because I figured after this mileage it would be due to wear. Clearly not the case.

Since the injection pump and sensors are the same I might of transferred over a problem. I'm going to start with the sensors, IAT, MAP and the green temp switch starting with the latter of course.

RangeRoller dt said:

Sensors are different depending on which head you have and if you have AC

Early metal inlet engines only have 2 sensors either brown/blue and a green. Plus IAT sensor.

Later plastic manifold models have 3sensors blue green and black. IAT is not fitted it’s function is replaced by a preset figure in the ECU

Green is always the ECU sender unit.

Click to expand...

That's a valid point.

Early engines use the IAT to calculate how much fuel to use from a map. The later engines use the MAF and the IAT is set to a default value of something like -40C. (Still late EDC in the BECM setting as that relates to how the EMS code is handled.) I don't know if the engine ECU was replaced? It may be working off default values and overdoing the fuel a bit?

Datatek said:

I wouldn't worry about the smell & smoke for the moment, it may just be stuff accumulated in the CAT and silencers that will disappear with a decent run. Why did you have to replace the engine?

Click to expand...

I guess you are right the car has sat for a while and probably the cat might need some heat to be able to work properly.

Also I was thinking that I made a modification to the cooling system. I run a smaller pulley on the water pump and a shorter belt and even a different visco all this to lower the operating temp to 80degrees. However if the car sits there idling it reaches at best 80 but mostly even lower temps between 75 and 80 degrees. Also the thermostat is changed to open at 80 degrees.

I wonder if that plays a role for the fueling?

Grrrrrr said:

That's a valid point.

Early engines use the IAT to calculate how much fuel to use from a map. The later engines use the MAF and the IAT is set to a default value of something like -40C. (Still late EDC in the BECM setting as that relates to how the EMS code is handled.) I don't know if the engine ECU was replaced? It may be working off default values and overdoing the fuel a bit?

Click to expand...

Nope I run the original engine Ecu or ar least it was the one I got with the car.

Speaking of which, I have a new chip that needs to go into the engine Ecu. I ordered it from END tuning. The only problem is that my Ecu does not have removable chips, they are soldered directly onto the pcb.
Has anyone here successful attempted to unsolder a chip on the engine Ecu? I’d like to modify it and install a socket instead of directly onto the pcb.
Of course I could also source another Ecu but then I would have sync it with the becm, is that possible with a nancom (security learn?)

To be continued…

To all best wishes for the new year!

BDC said:

I guess you are right the car has sat for a while and probably the cat might need some heat to be able to work properly.

Also I was thinking that I made a modification to the cooling system. I run a smaller pulley on the water pump and a shorter belt and even a different visco all this to lower the operating temp to 80degrees. However if the car sits there idling it reaches at best 80 but mostly even lower temps between 75 and 80 degrees. Also the thermostat is changed to open at 80 degrees.

I wonder if that plays a role for the fueling?

Nope I run the original engine Ecu or ar least it was the one I got with the car.

Speaking of which, I have a new chip that needs to go into the engine Ecu. I ordered it from END tuning. The only problem is that my Ecu does not have removable chips, they are soldered directly onto the pcb.
Has anyone here successful attempted to unsolder a chip on the engine Ecu? I’d like to modify it and install a socket instead of directly onto the pcb.
Of course I could also source another Ecu but then I would have sync it with the becm, is that possible with a nancom (security learn?)

To be continued…

To all best wishes for the new year!

Click to expand...

The optimum running temperature of the M51 is 95C running cool will certainly affect fuelling and running the viscous fan at higher revs may result in blade failure. A better idea is to bin the viscous fan and use the aircon fans for cooling, I run both mine like that. Having done that mod, you can also fit the GEMS V8 RAD which improves cooling and also add an extra fan if required..
You can sync the EDC to the BECM with Nanocom but that may or may not be necessary if the chip is replaced, it depends if the replacement chip needs mobilisation at start up. Are you sure you have to remove the chip? In many cases the replacement chip is piggy backed onto the existing chip.

Datatek said:

The optimum running temperature of the M51 is 95C running cool will certainly affect fuelling and running the viscous fan at higher revs may result in blade failure. A better idea is to bin the viscous fan and use the aircon fans for cooling, I run both mine like that. Having done that mod, you can also fit the GEMS V8 RAD which improves cooling and also add an extra fan if required..
You can sync the EDC to the BECM with Nanocom but that may or may not be necessary if the chip is replaced, it depends if the replacement chip needs mobilisation at start up. Are you sure you have to remove the chip? In many cases the replacement chip is piggy backed onto the existing chip.

Click to expand...

I opened the Ecu a while ago only to see I was not going to be plug and play. I expected to find a socket instead is is soldered.
The other issue is that the chip is made to fit my Ecu, it is based on certain numbers on the cover of the Ecu.
I have soldering gear but it is not suitable for this job, I’m afraid to bring in to much heat and potentially destroy the Ecu.

BDC said:

I opened the Ecu a while ago only to see I was not going to be plug and play. I expected to find a socket instead is is soldered.
The other issue is that the chip is made to fit my Ecu, it is based on certain numbers on the cover of the Ecu.
I have soldering gear but it is not suitable for this job, I’m afraid to bring in to much heat and potentially destroy the Ecu.

Click to expand...

Specialised equipment needed to safely remove chips.

BDC said:

I guess you are right the car has sat for a while and probably the cat might need some heat to be able to work properly.

Also I was thinking that I made a modification to the cooling system. I run a smaller pulley on the water pump and a shorter belt and even a different visco all this to lower the operating temp to 80degrees. However if the car sits there idling it reaches at best 80 but mostly even lower temps between 75 and 80 degrees. Also the thermostat is changed to open at 80 degrees.

I wonder if that plays a role for the fueling?

Nope I run the original engine Ecu or ar least it was the one I got with the car.

Speaking of which, I have a new chip that needs to go into the engine Ecu. I ordered it from END tuning. The only problem is that my Ecu does not have removable chips, they are soldered directly onto the pcb.
Has anyone here successful attempted to unsolder a chip on the engine Ecu? I’d like to modify it and install a socket instead of directly onto the pcb.
Of course I could also source another Ecu but then I would have sync it with the becm, is that possible with a nancom (security learn?)

To be continued…

To all best wishes for the new year!

Click to expand...

I've heard of people replacing with a socket but never done it myself.

BDC said:

I opened the Ecu a while ago only to see I was not going to be plug and play. I expected to find a socket instead is is soldered.
The other issue is that the chip is made to fit my Ecu, it is based on certain numbers on the cover of the Ecu.
I have soldering gear but it is not suitable for this job, I’m afraid to bring in to much heat and potentially destroy the Ecu.

Click to expand...

Id get a pro to do it. Especially someone who does it regularly

Mark Piercy said:

Id get a pro to do it. Especially someone who does it regularly

Click to expand...

Yes I’m looking for a company that might be able tot do that but I’m not in a rush.

First thing will be reverting the cooling mods to get a normal operating temperature to get an idea about the fuelling in those conditions. And of course I need to do do something about the timing modulation.
Hoping to tackle this the coming weekend

I changed the condenser and dryer but I still need a compressor, probably order one shortly.

Also still need to replace the rear air bags the abs accumulator the gearbox cooling hoses and oil because one of them is leaking.

After all that I will be ready for an MOT.

I have also another question concerning tires. My car came with 255 65R16 tires. I noticed some come with 235 70 r16.

I’m looking for replacement AT tires that come in my size tires but unfortunately this size is not very common for AT tires. Do you have some suggestions in terms of tire choices?
I’m looking for a decent AT tire not an off-road tire.

BDC said:

Yes I’m looking for a company that might be able tot do that but I’m not in a rush.

First thing will be reverting the cooling mods to get a normal operating temperature to get an idea about the fuelling in those conditions. And of course I need to do do something about the timing modulation.
Hoping to tackle this the coming weekend

I changed the condenser and dryer but I still need a compressor, probably order one shortly.

Also still need to replace the rear air bags the abs accumulator the gearbox cooling hoses and oil because one of them is leaking.

After all that I will be ready for an MOT.

I have also another question concerning tires. My car came with 255 65R16 tires. I noticed some come with 235 70 r16.

I’m looking for replacement AT tires that come in my size tires but unfortunately this size is not very common for AT tires. Do you have some suggestions in terms of tire choices?
I’m looking for a decent AT tire not an off-road tire.

Click to expand...

The 235 was for the 7J rims that came as an option on sone early cars. Yours are alnost certainly 8J. Personally I would stick with 255/65/R16 but it doesn't really matter. The General Grabber AT3 are very well behaved on the road.

Hi guys,

Small update again, I finally adjusted the dip rotation to get 50% modulation. I also changed the temp sensor which is used by Ecu.
I have to say the car runs better and feel a bit more lively and also a whole lot less smoke. Although I think the smoke problem could have had something to do with a false readout of the diesel temperature.

I noticed Just recently that the diesel temperature displayed in nancom was odd like -4,384 when it’s 10 degrees centigrade outside.

I started fiddling with the cables around the heater and fip and al of a sudden it read 32degrees.

Could this have been part of the problem? Also where is this measured? Inside the fip? I quess it might be an open wire or bad connection.

Fuel temperature is measured in the FIP.

BDC said:

Hi guys,

Small update again, I finally adjusted the dip rotation to get 50% modulation. I also changed the temp sensor which is used by Ecu.
I have to say the car runs better and feel a bit more lively and also a whole lot less smoke. Although I think the smoke problem could have had something to do with a false readout of the diesel temperature.

I noticed Just recently that the diesel temperature displayed in nancom was odd like -4,384 when it’s 10 degrees centigrade outside.

I started fiddling with the cables around the heater and fip and al of a sudden it read 32degrees.

Could this have been part of the problem? Also where is this measured? Inside the fip? I quess it might be an open wire or bad connection.

Click to expand...

Sure that was the fuel temperature and not the inlet air temperature? On models with EGR and MAF the IAT is set to a default of something like -43C.

Hi guys,

I have a question about the EAS system now. I bought 4 new air springs because the front axle had 2 different ones installed the rear springs look worn and show those typical tears where they bent.

I went ahead and replaced the right rear spring because I noticed it dropped the most in this corner. Now I just need to find time and good weather to change out the others. The compressor and valve block have already been rebuilt.

The problem is the cars still sags in the same corner (with fuse removed) so no auto leveling. I looked at it again and I noticed it looses air at the quick connect on top of the spring (used soop water). So I cut off a small piece of the tube and tried to push it in as good as I can but still the same problem.

Can I use another bit of tubing and use a push fit coupler in an effort to cure this? Any suggestion are welcome.


I have some bad news as well (for me at least). When I bought the car it was not running and the EAS did not work either so I could not inspect it very well.

It turns out that behind the plastic sill covering there is a bunch of rust to the point the sills are gone for the most part. the backside of the sills underneath the car showed some rust but not rotten through.

I can kick myself in the head now, going to all that work just to find out it is rotten. It only became apparent when I started to take the wheel arches out.
I think i need a break from the p38 for now , I really hoped to get her on the road again this summer.