non starter

Help'

I'm suffering from low compression on my TD5 after a rebuild by Rogers of Bedford. my question is this.

Its due for a compression test friday or monday but what I want to know is. assuming the valves are closed, where would I expect to see this escaping air if its passing the piston rings.
the oil filler or is there a crank case vent?

also. are there any mechanical bit and bobs that might restrict air flow into the cylinders and therefore giving low compression. a computer controlled flap valve for example.

Thanks

Dex said:

Help'

I'm suffering from low compression on my TD5 after a rebuild by Rogers of Bedford. my question is this.

Its due for a compression test friday or monday but what I want to know is. assuming the valves are closed, where would I expect to see this escaping air if its passing the piston rings.
the oil filler or is there a crank case vent?

also. are there any mechanical bit and bobs that might restrict air flow into the cylinders and therefore giving low compression. a computer controlled flap valve for example.

Thanks

Click to expand...

What makes you think the compression is low, if you have not yet measured it ?

CharlesY

its what i,m being told by the garage. the trouble is they have rebuilt it after an overheat and now they can't get it to fire. they tell me there are no ecu faults, all sensors are reading as they should at cranking and the fuel pressure is fine. they have compression tested it but when i asked for the figures they cant remmember so its being done again. at cranking they get smoke out exhaust so i assume this to mean that air and fuel are getting to the cylinders. the cylinder head was pressure tested and i.m told the engine was leak tested but i,m waiting for written comfirmation on this.

Dex said:

its what i,m being told by the garage. the trouble is they have rebuilt it after an overheat and now they can't get it to fire. they tell me there are no ecu faults, all sensors are reading as they should at cranking and the fuel pressure is fine. they have compression tested it but when i asked for the figures they cant remmember so its being done again. at cranking they get smoke out exhaust so i assume this to mean that air and fuel are getting to the cylinders. the cylinder head was pressure tested and i.m told the engine was leak tested but i,m waiting for written comfirmation on this.

Click to expand...

If the original readings were suspect I am sure by now they would have been investigating why, at the very least you would record and keep them in a safe place!

Check the cam timing as well this can account of odd compression readings, keep us informed.

Thanks Dave. I would think these figures would have been recorded too but I have my doubts whether the test was even done, even more so now they have said they would re do it.
They also told me the engine was toast and had seized solid until I went there one sunday morning with the spare key, and spare defender 110, and it turned over quiet well considering it had turned x litres of engine oil into fuel via a collapsed turbo bearing.
Their suggestion is that the bores have possibly turned oval due to the heat and hence non starting dur to low compression.
I'm also told that a leak down test has been done but am waiting conformation, in writing, of this and any results.

Cam timing has been checked, twice?

Don't trust anything more this mob of incompetents does.
They are stealing your money.
CharlesY

will wait to see what results I'm given for the compression and leak test and then decide what to do. possibly take the car back as is but ask for a detailed list of the work carried out, parts used, tests done and results. telling them this list will be given to another garage as ref might just give them a kick up the arse. though I hope not to have to.

will let you know results as they come in

I truly am very sorry about this, I have spent many year in the motor trade albeit very little on Land Rovers but at the end of the day its not rocket science, in this day and age with the amount of equipment that modern garages have diagnosis should be pretty straight forward.

When I hear reports of continued incompetence by these people I feel ashamed to say I was in the same trade, someone just tell me how how how do these people get away with it?

Dave

no reply from Rogers yet regarding my request for leak test confirmation or second compression test result; perhaps they're busy; the guy sitting on my other shoulder however, tells me i'm being screwed.

We struggled badly to get a TD5 to start after a head gasket change. If you are getting smoke out of the exhaust that is a good sign, it means the timing is most likely right.

You must switch on the ignition and floor the throttle to put the ECU into bleed mode, I presume they are doing this?

Keep the battery charged right up as it does make a difference.

Phone call from Rogers on saturday to give compression test results, which were around 19bar. Asked for specific figures to be emailed to me, but no surprise, nothing as yet.
Regarding leakdown est; "we don't have the equipement to carry out a cylinder by cylinder leak down test" Next I'll be told they don't have any spanners.

Dex said:

Phone call from Rogers on saturday to give compression test results, which were around 19bar. Asked for specific figures to be emailed to me, but no surprise, nothing as yet.
Regarding leakdown est; "we don't have the equipement to carry out a cylinder by cylinder leak down test" Next I'll be told they don't have any spanners.

Click to expand...

If each cylinder is hitting 19 BAR, that's plenty enough compression to start a TD5 if the glow plugs work and the injectors work.

So they are faffing about ..... basically shooting in the dark at your expense.

If they have tried starting the engine with a foot hard on the throttle chances are they will have flooded the cylinders with fuel so much that - guess what - It won't start.

CharlesY

On the phone they told me that a TD5 should be around 30bar??

perhaps I'm being really thick here but is'nt 1 bar = to 1 atmosphere; therefore if the listed compression ratio is 19.5 (atmospheres) to 1 for the TD5 then 19 bar is pretty much spot on. can anyone confirm this.

Dex said:

On the phone they told me that a TD5 should be around 30bar??

Click to expand...

They have NO IDEA what they are saying.

30 BAR is a LUDICROUS suggestion. The engine would be destroyed on the spot if you tried 30 BAR compression.

19 - 20 BAR is good.

It is clear these people DO NOT KNOW how to make a TD5 engine start up.

My advice is to take the car away from them, pay them for BITS but not labour, and then find someone who knows how to make it run.

Rocket science it is not.

However, if they took the injectors out and failed to replace them with all precautions to prevent them from "bottoming out" ............... wow ..... that could be heap expensive.

But the fact remains, these people have no idea what they are doing.

CharlesY

Thanks Charles see what you make of this!

The test results are here and are as follows;
Cylinder 1 19 Bar/280 Psi

Cylinder 2 21 Bar/300Psi

Cylinder 3 26 Bar/380Psi

Cylinder 4 28 Bar/400 Psi

Cylinder 5?
you sure it's your car...?

battenberg said:

Cylinder 5?
you sure it's your car...?

Click to expand...

Dear God ..... how many times times do we need to tell this guy
TAKE YOUR CAR AWAY FROM THESE INCOMPETENT IGNORANT CROOKS!

1. a TD5 engine has FIVE cylinders .... hence TD5.

2. You reported ....
The test results are here and are as follows;
Cylinder 1 19 Bar/280 Psi

Cylinder 2 21 Bar/300Psi

Cylinder 3 26 Bar/380Psi

Cylinder 4 28 Bar/400 Psi

CRAP. Just pure crap! They haven't even found the fifth cylinder!
If that is YOUR engine, then it looks to me like they have jiggered it somehow, but more likely they have not realised how a TD5 fuel system works, and they have filled the piston crowns with fuel and didn't realise the need to suck it all out again before trying to fire it up. These engines will not start in that condition. A bit of smoke perhaps, but no start.

They have probably done irreparable harm to your starter motor in the process.

Flooding the cylinders of a TD5 with fuel raises the compression WAY UP HIGH, and is a great way to bend connecting rods and / or to snap the piston lands off between the rings.

TAKE YOUR CAR BACK NOW BEFORE THEY DESTROY THE ENGINE, if they haven't already.

CharlesY

anyone know TD5's near bedford?

i think this guy needs help n quickly

I'll be taking the car back over the next week or so but before I do I just have to make sure I' know what I'm talking about, hence the mutiple silly questions.

As for cylinder 5; I thaught you could only check 4 cylinders as theres no glow plug on 5?