non starter 300 post head gasket

Return to the old story of my jap 300 97......fitted the head,again,with the gasket the right way round :doh:....this time !Valve spacings done,all back together,freshly charged battery.....wont go !

Even with a booster pack.Or jump leads.Turns over OK by hand.It turns a slow UUH-HUH, relieved compression one pot at a time by loosening the injector and pulling out slightly,same turn over speed,no water coming out,just diesel.

However,the jump leads got hot,and they are very heavy duty,also the starter got hot.Couple of things came to mind,bad earth from starter even though there is an extra earth to the battery from the air con comp mount bolt.Or back pressure from a blocked exhaust - unlikely but had it happen before,different vehicle.

By this point the initial battery was flat.Would a bad initial battery cause this,even with jump leads from a running 300,or a booster pack ? This is confusing as the engine turned over OK when I had the gasket on backwards (the shame,never work in the twilight when very tired!) so,has anyone any ideas? Other than the obvious recharged/replaced initial battery ?

when jumping with booster or battery only put positive lead to battery earth other lead on engine ,etc,a flat battery will take most of others charge not leaving enough for starter,could be poor connection in or to starter but more likely poor battery

Get assistant to crank it over and slacken off injector pipes one at a time and get air out.
Failing that a small sniff of easy start or solvent brake cleaner

Im not too bothered about the air in the diesel at this stage,I can deal with that when the time comes.....at present it is turning way too slow for easy start,like twice the speed of turning it by spanner,buts thanks for the reply,Fanny.
What is bothering me is the unknown....why the heat in the cables and starter ?

So,even if a battery is charged to the full on the bench,it may still not be good enough to start the vehicle? This one was showing full charge,and holding it,on the bench but only turning the engine very slowly.With the boosts,no better.As you say James,the earth was to the engine.The starter was bench tested and re-fitted the last change of gasket a few weeks ago,all contacts good then.

The worry I have is that there is mechanical resistance of some kind though none is felt when turning by spanner.

My thoughts were to make a good earth with a jump lead from the battery to the starter for the next attempt,tomorrow.

It's not an earthing fault. The heat in the leads and starter is an indication of the power that is being drawn through them. You can't have that much power in the live lead unless it has somewhere to go, the earth lead.

If you're sucking enough power to heat up very heavy duty leads and the starter then you've either got a short somewhere, wiring connected up wrong? or you've got something mechanically or hydraulically stopping the starter or engine from turning.

I'd start by taking the starter off and bench testing it again.

gonna sound stupid but are all the connection tight on the starter motor. I left the earth off on mine. turned over really slowly, plus it used the hand brake cable as an earth.

quote "It's not an earthing fault. The heat in the leads and starter is an indication of the power that is being drawn through them. You can't have that much power in the live lead unless it has somewhere to go, the earth lead"

thats what I am worried about......but wired up wrong?What could wire up wrong to cause that ? The starter and the alternator are self explanatory and the cluster of lives hasnt been touched.....since it turned over with the reverse gasket its the hydraulic or mechanical I am worried about,but since there is no water coming out of the injector holes...I will try it with no heater plugs tomorrow....then try it with the water drained form the system,briefly

As was mentioned before check the earth lead. If the earth is at fault ie going some were els then yes the power lead will get hot very hot as it drawing a lot of power but not going to earth correctly & as a result the starter will turn over very slowley.

Hi dont know if youve got it started yet but when i got mine it had same sort of probs bloke i bought it off told me it was starter the and he always bumped it down his hill anyway changed battery and starter but no change then when it burnt out the replacement starter i put old one back on and pulled the live battery lead out and wire brushed both ends. i connected it back up but run it rnd the front of engine as it was easier fired up first time and didnt let me down again till the engine blew up last month.

I remeber this well now. As said above. poor earth will give the problems that you are talking about. my leads go so hot that the plastic had started to melt, engine turned over but slowly, sounding like a flat battery. refitted the earth to the starter and first fire she went

Thanks for all the replies,it gives me some hope that this is an electrical problem not mechanical or hydraulic (as in water in pots) that I have to deal with.

If I get time today I will try it with charged battery and an extra earth from the starter.The braid earth strap is soaked in oil - the car has had a viscous oil leak since I had it,to the extent that my MOT garage said they wouldnt test it it again unless it was cleaned....and this from a garage on bodmin moor that does mainly farm vehicles! I had always thought that the leak was from the rear crankshaft seal and so not bothered with it but while I had the oil out recently I looked at the sump with a view to removing it to get the last of the old oil out and found that all but 2 of the bolts were only finger tight,if that.So.....found the oil leak !Or at least the major one - re-seal'd ans fitted.
The position that the vehicle is in makes access to the chassis end of the earth strap almost impossible,certainly for me,otherwise I would have replaced it with a heavier,insulated one.Since this truck has air con there arent as many easy earth connection points close to the battery,I have one to the top of the air con compressor but I dont think its doing much good.I have plenty of cable so I may run one from the far side of the engine close to the starter and back to the battery as a permanent fitting.

I will update as things pan out.Or not.I may have to get a headset and build up another head which I have spare.

Right, vehicle started,probable bad earth to starter. Running today to test......alternator caught fire.See other thread.............

AS far as the mechanics go, the engine seems to be fine. Had it running stationary for hour long sessions,on and off all yesterday and the only fault so far is a minor water leak from radiator top hose , new one ordered. It doesnt seem to get very hot,not unduly so, as the viscous fan is off and once up to heat in ran lovely and smooth with no extra cooling.

The fault seems to have been a combination of a weak battery and a bad earth at the starter as with another battery and a lead from the starter mount bolt it turns over and starts immediately.

The problems started last evening when I put the aircon and internal fans on ; the revs jumped up and down slightly and then smoke came, increasingly, from the back of the alternator . I didnt get a chance to test if it was overcharging or not. It has been suggested that I had dried out the bearing when I cleaned the alternator with switch cleaner and an air line, leading the bearings to heat up under increased load and so melt the nearby plastics. I am in two minds about this....I thought that they were sealed bearings.It was a genuine Denso 100amp unit,so I am hoping it is repairable. I could do without spending another 100 on a new unit and battery.

Right,update : another alternator on and the extra earth to the aircon comp mount bolts and it starts and runs.Bled the brakes out yesterday (since it had been standing for so long) and went for a test drive (private land!)....all good,so far....as I pulled up the windows began to steam and I noticed a few drops of water on the floor....heater matrix,I thought.But was unsure as had hosed down inside engine bay in case of spilt brake fluids,thought that may have worked its way in.

Looked this morning,ran the engine,the temp wouldnt go up ( I have the viscous fan off) and the water in the header was down to the min marker.When I ran the fans brown tinted water blew out in drops from downward air vents.So Im pretty sure its the matrix gone.

HOWEVER ...what worries me,is this :

is this a symptom of the water overpressurising (given that the cap blows out at 15) or is it just that the matrix has sat for nearly a year with the dregs rotting the bottom out of it ?

Its a bugger of a job to take the matrix out,easier to find a whole heater box of the aircon type and replace that...and even then its a right fiddly bugger causing much backache anskinned knuckles.Just glad that I waited on putting the anti freeze in !

Any ideas ? I am not keen on rad weld type products as in my experience they either dont work or cause more problems. Is it just a case of water pressure finding the weakest link ? Its better this all gets dealt with now rather than when its back on the road..........

***UPDATE*** disconnected heater hoses and joined them with metal pipe. In the process I drained all the water out of the engine and radiator and repeated flushed out each from all angles seperately and together until water came out completely clean , about 40 minutes. Filled up with distilled water and antifreeze ( I have a free source of distilled!) and bled all air out,ran for an hour and then test drove at speed and then left idling to maintain temp. All good,no probs.

Took for MOT thursday PM giving it a good run on the dual carraigeway for half an hour first......and only failed on small hole at base of door pillar , quite a result. Drove away.

BUT !!!! nearly home and I smelt hot coolant,gauges all fine . Slowed down and took it easy as was less than a mile out. As I pulled in a puff of steam. Bonnet up.....

....one of the admittedly elderly heater hoses had split at the point where its clipped to the head. The hose was not great to start with so I was not THAT worried.

What does worry me is that each time I run the engine for a while at proper temp, the coolant finds a weak point and blows out. There is no oil/water crossover,no smell from the header tank......is this just a series of bits that have been damaged by previous overheat and left standing for a year giving up ? Or the symptom of a larger problem ?

Any ideas ?