Non EDC timing in Auto

Hi again, I have finally got round to ditching my EDC pump for mechanical.
I have changed to pump with the locking tool but the crank pin will no fit. The flywheel slot for the pin is visible in the big hole under the blanking cover, so am I correct in thinking that the crank is mistimed but the electronics could over come this?? And now I am going mech I will need everything lined up correctly.
Just checking before I strip everything down.

Are you trying to say that you have changed the pump and with the pump locking pin fitted the crank slot doesn't line up? If so it needs to be done the other way round, align the crank and adjust the pump so the pump pin fits in. Have you changed the belt or looked at the cam timing or are you doing it with the front cover on?

Front cover on, pump pin aligned before doing anything.
I will probably break it all down and align everything with new belt to be sure.

Having done this to my 300, I am not sure exactly what is going on here - But, start by locking the flywheel, and then "worry" about the pump.

When I did mine, I just took all the electronic "stuff" off, binned it, and started from there - didn't check anything before I started dismantling - EDC was going, no questions, non negotiable ( to EDC)

You Have PM

EDC static is different than mechanical static lock flywheel then time pump. If you do it with a DTI there should be 1.54 mm lift on cam at TDC number one firing.

wammers said:

EDC static is different than mechanical static lock flywheel then time pump. If you do it with a DTI there should be 1.54 mm lift on cam at TDC number one firing.

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Thanks for that, I didn't know. Have you got the figures for the cam lift on t'other please? ( just interested - thats all - I ain't going back!!)

Static timing with EDC is 0.45 mm lift at TDC.

@wammers Thanks

Right you lost me with DTI. I have decided to pull the front, remove belt, lock flywheel, check cam markings and then set pump.
When, yes I said when not if, I have it up and running I will look to take it to Gwyn Lewis for finer tuning.

autos have a different flywheel locking pin than manual ,do you have the correct pin

bigjak said:

Right you lost me with DTI. I have decided to pull the front, remove belt, lock flywheel, check cam markings and then set pump.
When, yes I said when not if, I have it up and running I will look to take it to Gwyn Lewis for finer tuning.

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DTI = dial test indicator, if used properly, a very accurate way of setting the static timing, but usually only necessary if the taper bush which the pulley bolts to, finds its way off the pump shaft.

jamesmartin said:

autos have a different flywheel locking pin than manual ,do you have the correct pin

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Are you sure? I have used the same tool on a 200 manual, and 300 auto and manual. In fact we made the tool for a pals 200 TDi donkeys year ago. manual and auto have different holes for the tool.

Disco1BFG said:

DTI = dial test indicator, if used properly, a very accurate way of setting the static timing, but usually only necessary if the taper bush which the pulley bolts to, finds its way off the pump shaft.



Are you sure? I have used the same tool on a 200 manual, and 300 auto and manual. In fact we made the tool for a pals 200 TDi donkeys year ago. manual and auto have different holes for the tool.

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not a 100 % to be honest its been a while since i did a 300 tdi auto,in what way wont it fit in that case

I have the set with four different pins but I can see the flywheel slot through the middle hole of the three in way of the blanking plate, so it is that far out.

pin needs to fit to ensure it is tdc edc wont make up for poor timing,if pumps fitted with timing out you may need dti to ensure pump is tdc when crank is

Disco1BFG said:

DTI = dial test indicator, if used properly, a very accurate way of setting the static timing, but usually only necessary if the taper bush which the pulley bolts to, finds its way off the pump shaft.



Are you sure? I have used the same tool on a 200 manual, and 300 auto and manual. In fact we made the tool for a pals 200 TDi donkeys year ago. manual and auto have different holes for the tool.

Click to expand...

Slightly incorrect, the DTI is more accurate. If in the case of the 200-300 TDI the last movement of the pump to set static is away from the engine any mechanical slop in the pump internals is catered for. Giving a more accurate cam lift setting.

wammers said:

Slightly incorrect, the DTI is more accurate. If in the case of the 200-300 TDI the last movement of the pump to set static is away from the engine any mechanical slop in the pump internals is catered for. Giving a more accurate cam lift setting.

Click to expand...

Yeah, Ok, BUT, i did say usually

I concede the point - but how much actual difference would it make in the real world - I can see its probably worth doing the first time the pump goes on the engine, but if you're just changing the belt - do you think its worth it? or do you have experience ?

( and... I am NOT having a go at you in any way - I am interested, and I might just do "it" to mine to see what it does...)

( So, IOW, I agree, I should have probably done it when I chucked the EDC pump, but given the way it starts and runs, i can't imagine its going to benefit much from setting with a DTI... or is it??? )

bigjak said:

I have the set with four different pins but I can see the flywheel slot through the middle hole of the three in way of the blanking plate, so it is that far out.

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Of the three holes in the relevant place ( the name of which escapes me for the moment ), IIRC, the crank locking tool goes into the larger of the threaded holes, again IIRC, is on the N/S - so if your slot ( ooerr ) is in the middle of the middle hole, then the pump is probably a tooth or two out on the belt*. As I mentioned before, I locked the crank, and then worked from there - it all went together like meccano, and started instantly when back together...

* - having re-read your initial post, this is not quite what you said, but I have left my "explanation" up, as it might help

Disco1BFG said:

Yeah, Ok, BUT, i did say usually

I concede the point - but how much actual difference would it make in the real world - I can see its probably worth doing the first time the pump goes on the engine, but if you're just changing the belt - do you think its worth it? or do you have experience ?

( and... I am NOT having a go at you in any way - I am interested, and I might just do "it" to mine to see what it does...)

( So, IOW, I agree, I should have probably done it when I chucked the EDC pump, but given the way it starts and runs, i can't imagine its going to benefit much from setting with a DTI... or is it??? )

Click to expand...

It may make a slight difference in cam lift it depends how worn the pump internals are. The slightly advanced static timing or point of injection, is what the pump reverts to when internal pressure bleeds off when the engine is stopped. As internal pressure builds on start up, the point of injection is moved towards TDC by the internal pressure acting against the spring in the timing device.

bigjak said:

I have the set with four different pins but I can see the flywheel slot through the middle hole of the three in way of the blanking plate, so it is that far out.

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You could try aligning the timing mark on the pulley / front case. Make sure the woodruff key is truly vertical and then see where the flywheel timing slot is, it should be close enough to make it obvious where it should be finally positioned.

Here is the timing slot in the middle hole and it should be lined up with the bigger hole to take the locking pin.
But in this position the woodruff key aligns with the arrow and the cam and pump align.
So should I take the belt off and turn the crank till I can lock it?
https://flic.kr/p/DVHDqk