No 4WD!

Hello All,

Firstly, all levers seem to engage/disengage correctly. That is I can drive all 5 gears in 2WD and 4WD in High and all 5 in Low. However, I don't seem to get any power going to the front axle when in 4WD High or Low. I say this as I can easily donut with rear wheels spinning in the snow ice (purely for experimental purposes you see). The same result occurs whether I am in 2WD or either of the 4WD - I would expect this not to be the case if truly receiving 4WD? Also, I have been stuck a number odf times when trying to test the 4WD and every time it has seemed that the rear wheels have just been spinning out with no sign of the fronts spinning. I have been on my own so can't say for sure but about as confident as I can be that this is the case.

So, I have taken the FOS wheel off and checked the (MAP) FWH's. They seem to be changing from Free to Fixed appropriately.

The vehicle is jacked up now and with it in neutral, 2WD, 4WD High or Low I can turn the wheel round (with a small amount of resistance). I am not experienced so don't know how much resistance should or shouldn't exist when in neutral or 4WD but I am pretty sure there should be a noticeable change - there is not.

PLEASE HELP!! So much snow and ice and all I want to do is feel smug in my go anywhere Series Landy but all it's really good for is as a rear wheel drive drift vehicle at the moment


Thanks,

Andy.

Have you got freewheeling hubs?

I'm sure we had a similar q yesterday

Sorry I see you do have FWH's :doh:

Yep, I have MAP freewheeling hubs and they switch to 'Fixed' as they should.

I have owned the car 6 months and sol far not checked any of the oil in the diffs/transmission. Mainly because I don't know how many bits there are to check. I was thinking of doing this soon as the front adn rear diffs do leak a bit. Could lack of lubrication cause my symptoms?

Can someone possibly guide me on what and where I need to check for oil? I can see drain plugs on the front and rear diffs so figure they need doing. What about the transmission?

Sounds like you have a broke half shaft, jack up the 'ole front of the vehicle, put the 'box in first with the engine stopped and turn one of the front wheels, the other should turn the other way, if not you might have a broken half shaft.
They are not hard to get out, well not when they arent broke.

Alternatively, lift only one front wheel is in the air, put it in 1st, engine off, ignition off, in 4wd and try to rotate the lifted wheel. If it spins and the propshaft rotates there's no connection in the gearbox, 4wd is not engaging properly, have a look at the selector mechanism. There was a thread here recently about this, go have a look.

In case anyone else is struggling the other thread is here: http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f6/series-2s-4-wheel-drive-problems-125505.html

My course of action then is:
1. Jack up both front wheels and check diff is working by rotating one and ensuring the other travels in opposite direction.
2. Raise one wheel and see if turning it drives the propshaft.
New questions are:
Q1. Where is the best place to jack for both fronts at the same time? I have seen suggestions of using the diff. Does this mean right under the casing where the drain plug is? I don't have axle stands so if I can do the test quickly whilst on a jack it would be simplest.
Q2. What's my best way to see the propshaft whilst I turn the wheel?

Apologies for posting similar threads but I am teaching myself so often need a bit more specific help than other posts may give. Your help's appreciated and I'll be sure to pass the knowledge on - as soon as I have any to speak of

Hi again,
Dont jack the diff in my opinion a deffo no no, you'd be stressing the axle in a way its not meant to and if you slip you'll squish the front plate of the diff its only 1.5mm.
Jack up one side of the landy and support it on some wooden blocks on the main chassis rails just behind the driver/passengers feet area, then do the same on the other side if you havent got a load of wood lower the vehicle down a bit, if you do hold the vehicle up just on the jack dont go under it.
If you are on your own then you'll have to improvise watching the prop shaft, you could use the camera on your fone, set it recording and say 'turning now' when you turn the wheel then replay it, or another way you could put a tie wrap on the uj and listen for it 'clicking' against the chassis when you turn the wheel.

Right, I jacked both front wheels up and both span freely and completely independently of each other so am I to presume that my diff is shot?

A while back there was a funny clunking noise from that I couldn't put my finger on that subsequently disappeared as suddenly as it arrived. I'm now thinking it was the diff knocking and eventually falling to bits.

I'll dismantle it all as per one of the many writeups. Anyone got any tips on what else I may as well do whilst I have it all off or any good advice on checking for other areas which may have been buggered by this?

Thanks again for your continued help! I'd be fooked without you lovely people.

OK, possibly stupid question, you were having trouble seeing the propshaft - do you actually have one? The wheels will turn independently if there's no propshaft or if the propshaft is turning. I'd expect a broken diff to produce some noise when it's spinning.
Are you sure the freewheel hubs are engaging? You could pop the hubs off and see if the half shafts are turning.

Oxides, not a stupid question at all. When I'm involved you are right to assume nothing

The hubs are definitely 'fixed' and working (had front assembly off and watched the pins lock in fixing the wheel to the half shaft).

I will check that I can locate the propshaft in the morning. Will be very embarassing if it is just missing, on the flip side will hopefully mean a nice easy fix I guess Even without a propshaft wouldn't a working diff still result in the wheels turning in opposite directions whilst jacked up?

Have you actually taken out both halfshafts and checked them, its an easy job.
Oxides has a point the diff would clank and bang if it were fecked.
Writhing about on the snow first and having a look underneath and checking the prop shaft ought to be the first job.

Had a lovely lay down in the slush this morning and the propshaft is there and appears to look sound to a simple inspection. I need the car for the next couple of days but after Christmas I will get it up again and check the half shafts (I guess I'd get those out to remove the diff anyway so if they are both knackered guess I can just stop there, reassemble with good ones and see if it helps). With a spare pair of hands also I was thinking I can get the hole car up on axle stands and get someone to put it in 4WD and drop it in gear and then I can check if the propshaft is turning. Perhaps I should just go straight to checking the halfshafts first though - how much time would I allocate for that job?

Thanks DP. ~ As I typed that I remembered it is more commonly abbreviated to stand for something entirely different :5bsmilielol5:

Its not a hard job, depending what wheels you have you dont even have to remove them.
Just undo the 5 or 6 bolts on the drive flange and prize out the flange and the half shaft comes with, if spilling a bit of oil bothers you then remove the plug and drain the diff first.
It'll be obvious if the shaft is broke, its not quite so easy getting one out that is broke however the inboard bit stays behind where the break is, there is a fancy gizmo for doing it, but I've never seen one.

I finally got my halfshaft out - on OS, NS one still in progress. Anyway, once I got wheels and hubs off and got back to the stub axle on both sides I tried the turn test again and as if by magic - turning one side suddenly started turning the other in the opposite direction - GREAT, except that I have done nothing and it hasn't worked for the last year so I can't just rely on it not stopping working again.

QUESTION: I have put it in 4WD and in gear and front wheels now turn in opposition. Should this be the case with it in 4WD and in gear or should I not be able to turn them because it's in gear and the rear wheels are down on the floor?

I guess I could try turning the prop shaft when I'm next out there. This I guess shouldn't turn with her in 4WD and in gear? If it does then it should also drive both front sides evenly if the diff is working properly, though I would have a different problem of 4WD not engaging the prop shaft no?

Anyway, whilst I have it all apart I want to get right in there and check it all so I can have some good few years of trouble free 4WD ahead so any advice, tips etc would be greatly appreciated. Also, any pointers as to why the test of wheels turning in opposition to each other has failed all this time then suddenly started working? The OS half shaft I have removed looks totally sound (though the UV joint has a lot of play in it), I have not got the NS half shaft out yet as rear brake plate currently stuck on but I guess it is in order else the test wouldn't have been working at all right?

I'm a bit confused but only seeing half the picture until I get it all stripped down but would love to hear any opinions or guesses from here whilst I work on getting it all out.

Thanks,

Andy.

if you want to tell if in 4wd jack one wheel up on front axle and leave in gear if in 4wd wheel wont turn far ,you can jack under diff it wont hurt axle in any way but needs trolley jack ,