new style head gasket

Anyone here have had any experience,or comments about the new style multi layer metal head gasket for the 300tdi?planning to change the gasket soon so wanna know which 'direction' to go.

danspann said:

Anyone here have had any experience,or comments about the new style multi layer metal head gasket for the 300tdi?planning to change the gasket soon so wanna know which 'direction' to go.

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Multi layered steel gasket known as MLS are the best gaskets for high compression and boosted engines. They hold and sustain the tremendous pressure from performance engines.

The only way they will work is by ensuring you have an absolutely straight and level block and head surface since there is no way of it compensating for spaces like the conventional gaskets do.

You use a copper based high temp spray on gasket sealant on the gasket and mating surfaces. I usually undo the rivets and spray every layer before assembly.

So you must send out your engine head to be resurfaced by a machine shop and use an inch and a half resurfaced aluminum block with emery cloth to resurface the block. You can typically see where the block is low and where spots are high. I use a thick piece of glass with a feeler gauge afterwards to ensure the block is straight and level.

So MLS gaskets work fine but it needs completely straightaway and level surfaces.

I fitted one on a perfectly straight block with a brand new head and it failed immediately. It was a Sh*tpart one though. After that I decided I would never use Sh*tpart again. But I digress, I fitted a normal Elring one and it was fine with that.

Always used std composite gaskets never any bother.
Not see the tin ones for the tdi before

Barbados said:

Multi layered steel gasket known as MLS are the best gaskets for high compression and boosted engines. They hold and sustain the tremendous pressure from performance engines.

The only way they will work is by ensuring you have an absolutely straight and level block and head surface since there is no way of it compensating for spaces like the conventional gaskets do.

You use a copper based high temp spray on gasket sealant on the gasket and mating surfaces. I usually undo the rivets and spray every layer before assembly.

So you must send out your engine head to be resurfaced by a machine shop and use an inch and a half resurfaced aluminum block with emery cloth to resurface the block. You can typically see where the block is low and where spots are high. I use a thick piece of glass with a feeler gauge afterwards to ensure the block is straight and level.

So MLS gaskets work fine but it needs completely straightaway and level surfaces.

Click to expand...

So do I have to use the copper spray on the gaskets and surfaces or is it my decision not to, why I ask is because the head is new so no high/low spots

danspann said:

Anyone here have had any experience,or comments about the new style multi layer metal head gasket for the 300tdi?planning to change the gasket soon so wanna know which 'direction' to go.

Click to expand...

not needed ,if head has been so over heated its relaxed it will move again mls gaskets are more suited for k series type engines ,just get std composite gasket

danspann said:

So do I have to use the copper spray on the gaskets and surfaces or is it my decision not to, why I ask is because the head is new so no high/low spots

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Since the standard gasket compresses and makes a seal, you will need the copper spray gasket sealant for all MLS head gaskets...... Edited....unless it comes with a seal coating.

You cannot tell what the surface of the head is in until you meticulously check with a straight edge and a feeler gauge or get the head brushed at a machine shop.

Most importantly, you cannot use the stock stretch bolts with MLS gaskets, we used replacements studs from ARP.

On my recent high performance engine build (BMW), I used ARP studs and bolts for the head, crank shaft and con rod.

These are the guys we get our MLS gaskets from. They have a good info page http://www.cometic.com/technical.aspx

They have made many custom gaskets for us with varying thickness for lowering compression when boosting engines.

They have a new sealant on their gaskets now but for insurance, we still used the copper spray sealant on all our builds, never had one fail. They advised not to add extra sealant, however we mist the gaskets with the copper spray, boosted as high as 20 psi on six cylinder engines and peaked higher than that...never had a failure.

Barbados said:

These are the guys we get our MLS gaskets from. They have a good info page http://www.cometic.com/technical.aspx

They have made many custom gaskets for us with varying thickness for lowering compression when boosting engines.

They have a new sealant on their gaskets now but for insurance, we still used the copper spray sealant on all our builds, never had one fail.

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sounds like bullh****

jamesmartin said:

sounds like bullh****

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Maybe to you because you never used it, so don't make a comment unless you tried it and know what you are talking about.

This is the engine we built for my Mtech II Euro e30 325i.

We got a 3.2L engine from a Euro M3 and knife edge machined the crank as you can see in the pics.

We replaced every part in the entire engine apart from its core, with either OEM or TOTL performance parts. I had the block and head machined with the mirror surface requirement for the custom made MLS head gasket and built it to boost just over a bar as we tune.

You can see the copper spray sealant next to the head and how we spray the MLS layers one at a time.

The identical one we did a year before that put down 500 rwhp, hope that not sound like bull**** too.

If I am successful in finding a decent 300tdi powered Defender, I will rebuild it using an MLS gasket and boost it with a bigger Garret or as my mate above said Bull..but Bullseye turbo...one of the best turbo manufactures in the business now....they bought out Borg Warner.

This is the company we buy our turbos from, would love to boost a 300tdi with one of these......not Bull **** Jme...Bullseye LOL http://www.bullseyepower.com/home.asp

I have to do some research for upgraded injectors and of course look at what the 300tdi engine weak points are. Just saw some guys claiming great HP increase with chips, seems too high but I wont call it bull**** until I can prove it. We program chips too for some cars but to get a fairly decent amount of hp, you have to upgrade injectors, fuel pump etc.

I never researched it so far, but I am sure there must be another boost nut out there who had his Landy rocketing with a built up, performance boosted engine.

Just remembering tips about the MLS as it runs through my mind. You can torque the upgraded head studs as much as 10% more if using the MLS. You cant crush them like you would with a regular gasket.

Once you do all the prep work properly and torq the head well, you will throw a piston before you find a leak in one of these.

That could be a down side, but if you build an engine well and you know where its weak points are, keep it below the limits and you would be happy.

BTW, MLS is not new, BMW has been using them as a stock head gasket since the early 2000's same for intake and exhaust gaskets too.

I think my guys packed and shipped some here in my container by accident, I will take some pics and post them.

Barbados said:

Since the standard gasket compresses and makes a seal, you will need the copper spray gasket sealant for all MLS head gaskets...... Edited....unless it comes with a seal coating.

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This may well have been the reason for the failure of the gasket in my case as I was told that you just fit the same way as a standard gasket. Then when it failed the company I got it from said that you had to torque the head bolts down by another 60 degrees, which made no sense to me as they were stretch bolts. Nothing was said about a possible sealant or using different head bolts.

I suppose if you get it all right then it will be fine, but as I now know more than I did 10 minutes ago I put my failure down to the sellers lack of knowledge, and the lack of knowledge of the home mechanic idiot .

Still, I can't see anything wrong with a standard gasket either, as long as it's a good make.

tetsu0san said:

This may well have been the reason for the failure of the gasket in my case as I was told that you just fit the same way as a standard gasket.

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That's the reason 1,000,000,000 % sure.

I hate when....

A. Companies and individuals sell stuff they have no clue about, wasting customers time and money.

B. Sellers won't accept that their lack of knowledge can cause damage and last but not least....

C. When some people have not a single clue about something, they bad talk it instead. Remaining quiet and learning from those who know what they are speaking about should be the order.
There us an old saying which I follow "When in doubt, just shut up."

They are as bad as examples A and B, maybe collectively as well.

MLS gaskets have a sole purpose, to make an extremely tight head seal, mostly applicable to high compression and boosted engines.

The beauty with the company we buy ours from, is that they will make them to our specs. Typically we order them with stackers for lowering the engines compression ratio so that we can greatly increase boost pressure.

If you look at my pics you will see one of the stackers in the engine block, that MLS gasket was just under 1/4" thick.

tetsu0san said:

I fitted one on a perfectly straight block with a brand new head and it failed immediately. It was a Sh*tpart one though. After that I decided I would never use Sh*tpart again. But I digress, I fitted a normal Elring one and it was fine with that.

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you fit new heads bolts and run a tap down the holes to clean the threads and then blow them out with a blow gun?

Thor1950 said:

you fit new heads bolts and run a tap down the holes to clean the threads and then blow them out with a blow gun?

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Yes that's true, that is supposed to be the standard procedure when rebuilding any engine, performance or not, stock or performance head gasket.

Just found a few pics with my engine assembled with the MLS head gasket.

You can see a close up of how thick the MLS head gasket is to lower the compression ratio so we can really crank up the boost.