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standardmoose

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hi guys just wondering if any one could help me out. im gettin myself a series 1 disco and lookin at doin it up, as my first car i every truely learned to drive was a series 2 disco and i miss her very much. however my previous disco was untouch and i did love it that way but as im gonna be gettin an older one i wanna turn it into a bit of a beasty. the main thing im lookin at is puttin some big chunky tyres on, at the moment im lookin at 35x12.50 R15 on steelies, but cos of the size i know im gonna have to do some work to the car, and im lookin at liftin it as well as i asume i would probably have to do this anyways, now here is my question i've been on the old ebay lookin at lift kits etc and come across 2 different possiblities, number one is what i was expecting which is your basic new springs and shocks, which i've seen on other peoples cars but i did stumble across something i havent seen before which are thesehttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-Defender-suspention-2-lift-kit-spacers-LK2-/370395008067?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item563d434c43 now i know these are gonna be as good as gettin the new spring and etc but they seem like a cheap fix for the time as im workin on a budget to get everthing done, then in the future replace with some proper suspension. but the main question is has anyone used these and what are they like? cheers for the help guys
 
Buy cheap buy twice, there is a hell of a lot more you need to do to lift a disco if you want to do it right
 
cranked trailing arms, caster correction arms, Universal joint to replace donut at the rear. Extended brake lines. Thats just a few off the top of my head. Im sure there are more.

You can get away with just buying the lift kit, but after an undetermined amount of time, something is gonna fail. Do you want to be offroading and have a brake line snap off cus you skimped? You can get complete, full lift kits. They are definately alot more expensive, but they cover most, if not all bases

http://www.mm-4x4.com/5-super-lift-...efender--bbc-top-gears-range-rover-3485-p.asp

Little bit more than 2" but you get the idea of whats needed apart from springs and shocks
 
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I spent 700+vat on a lift kit, thats radius arms, trailing arms, brake lines, bump stops, springs and dampers, full polybush, new turret rings, HD spring retainers and damper boots.

I have 33x12.5x15 and I have had to fit extended arches (£150) and do some rear tub work, and it still catches a bit on full articulation.

Drives superbly on the road though, really nice, like standard (with no sway bars fitted)

I had a disco recently had was 3-4" lift, on springs and blocks, procomp dampers, standard geometry.

Was VERY rolly and quite scary on the road.

I would like 35s but don't want to snap shafts everyday, and don't want to bodylift.

35s on the cheap is gonna be nigh on impossible!
 
MrPDude said:
cranked trailing arms, caster correction arms, Universal joint to replace donut at the rear. Extended brake lines. Thats just a few off the top of my head. Im sure there are more.

You can get away with just buying the lift kit, but after an undetermined amount of time, something is gonna fail. Do you want to be offroading and have a brake line snap off cus you skimped? You can get complete, full lift kits. They are definately alot more expensive, but they cover most, if not all bases

5 Super-Lift Kit - As Fitted to Our Defender BBC Top Gears Range Rover

Little bit more than 2" but you get the idea of whats needed apart from springs and shocks
Click to expand...

lol ok really underestimated what i would need lol had a look on the website though theres a 2"inch lift kit there which looks ok but doesnt come with some of the stuff from 5" inch kit. i was talkin to a mechanic the other day and asked him about those spacer blocks which he highly recomeneded i didnt do , he was jsut saiyin spend as much as u can on suspension and brakes as thats what keeps u alive lol cheers for the help though it is much appriciated :)
 
Mr Noisy said:
I spent 700+vat on a lift kit, thats radius arms, trailing arms, brake lines, bump stops, springs and dampers, full polybush, new turret rings, HD spring retainers and damper boots.

I have 33x12.5x15 and I have had to fit extended arches (£150) and do some rear tub work, and it still catches a bit on full articulation.

Drives superbly on the road though, really nice, like standard (with no sway bars fitted)

I had a disco recently had was 3-4" lift, on springs and blocks, procomp dampers, standard geometry.

Was VERY rolly and quite scary on the road.

I would like 35s but don't want to snap shafts everyday, and don't want to bodylift.

35s on the cheap is gonna be nigh on impossible!
Click to expand...

cheers for the info on what i need to be doin. the role was what i was worried about as i have never drivien a disco 1 only ever drivin a disco 2 which is what i used to have but i know disco 1's hava role problem without being lifted. do u think it would be just as bad with a 2" lift? the cheapest i've found 35's for is £111 which are marshalls , never heard of the brand but only really for off road use, oherwise is bfgoodrich which are £166 do u know what size i can get away without lifting it? dont mind doin arch work and stuff but if the role is gonna be that bad i would rather not risk it as i plan on using it as a daily driver as well ? cheers for the help
 
standardmoose said:
what else would i need to do, i know i would have to do some body work and probably spacers as well, but what else would i have to do? cheers
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atleast a 2 inch body lift, very extended bumpstops, and you will struggle to go round small roundabouts

also a defender transfer box

serious arch work and extended arches (can cost 170)

i would very seriously advise against using 35's on the road, especially as you havnt drived a disco 1 before. For your safety and other road users
 
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If you've not even bought your Disco 1 yet, get it first, get used to it in standard condition and fix whatever faults it has (it will have some or other). That includes using it off road. Once all the teething troubles are sorted out, by all means start looking at modifications etc.

35" tyres won't necessarily make it better off road, it will be less stable in many situations which will be a big disadvantage. Its only really boggy mud where tyre size is an advantage.
 
V8_Disco said:
atleast a 2 inch body lift, very extended bumpstops, and you will struggle to go round small roundabouts

also a defender transfer box

serious arch work and extended arches (can cost 170)

i would very seriously advise against using 35's on the road, especially as you havnt drived a disco 1 before. For your safety and other road users
Click to expand...

whats the biggest or widest size i can get away with for road use, i've got another car so im not going to be using the disco ever single day, and i was planning on wider arch's so i know its not gonna be the most practical of cars, but im trying to get as wide of a stance as possible, but obviously i dont want something that will struggle goin round roundabouts, as i drivin a car like that before and it wasn't fun lol. the more i hear about he disco 1's the more i get concerned lol my old disco was great but i've heard the difference between a disco 1 and 2 handling wise is quite large. cheers for the help
 
standardmoose said:
whats the biggest or widest size i can get away with for road use, i've got another car so im not going to be using the disco ever single day, and i was planning on wider arch's so i know its not gonna be the most practical of cars, but im trying to get as wide of a stance as possible, but obviously i dont want something that will struggle goin round roundabouts, as i drivin a car like that before and it wasn't fun lol. the more i hear about he disco 1's the more i get concerned lol my old disco was great but i've heard the difference between a disco 1 and 2 handling wise is quite large. cheers for the help
Click to expand...

a wide stance is fine if your building a challenge buggy, but not necessarily for a normal offroader, ive seen tyres popped off beads because the wheels were just too wide for the tracks at most places

most people i know have 2 sets of wheels, anything bigger than 32 really handles **** on the road, i have 32s and i wouldnt go any bigger, it takes lots of concentration to keep it in a straight line
the wider the tyres and taller the walls the more it will veer on the road
best bet is to have 2 sets of tyres if you really really want a big set for offroading, but go for height and not width if you want to get through mud, but side slopes WILL be a problem
 
My car has the caster correction arms which seem to make it steer much better on road, it doesn't dance around and the steering has good weight and feel.

It also has very heavy duty springs (3" lift) which make it quite hard over potholes but not that rolly.

In fact it drives admirably for such a modified setup.

The tyres do make it hard work and you gotta be ready for it. Sometimes it decides to do odd stuff with the steering, mainly the return to centre is shocking, it kinda wants to keep going round the roundabout when you're trying to turn off :D

Also it is bad on the motorway, 5th gear won't get it over 50mph unless it's dead flat or downhill. And this is a v8!

I really want to fit low ratio crown and pinions to the diffs to get my gears back - another problem is that it's quite fast off road in 1st gear low, when I really want it to crawl slower.

Personally I think it looks awesome with the 12.5" and intend to keep it, and it does drive well on and off road but only cos of the full setup.

I have thought about 35s, but would need to add 2" Spacers and shock droppers. The weight of winch, bumper, sliders, recovery gear has lowered it to about 2-2.5" lift I reckon, need about 4" lift for 35s with cut arches.

I don't want to bodylift you see. If I went for 35s it would need the diff ratios changing first or it would be pointless. And if it started breaking shafts I'd be well annoyed, cos HD shafts are only 24 spline, they're well expensive, and my air lockers are 10 spline.

For me i think it does amazingly with 33s, I have maxxis buckshots and they're brill on road, but I think they let the truck down off road, something more aggressive would be far better - but then I do like it's road manners.

Ahh, it's always a compromise.

I say go for 2" lift, 265/75/16 on 16x7s with 30mm Spacers and 50mm arches like everyone else, and have a great time.

If you do what I've done to mine it makes it great to look at and PERHAPS marginally better off road, but it's a pain too sometimes.
 
Mr Noisy said:
...................

The tyres do make it hard work and you gotta be ready for it. Sometimes it decides to do odd stuff with the steering, mainly the return to centre is shocking, it kinda wants to keep going round the roundabout when you're trying to turn off :D

Also it is bad on the motorway, 5th gear won't get it over 50mph unless it's dead flat or downhill. And this is a v8!

I say go for 2" lift, 265/75/16 on 16x7s with 30mm Spacers and 50mm arches like everyone else, and have a great time.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised you feel the tyres are to blame here. In fact, the self-centring is due to the caster, not the tyres. But you say you have castor correction arms? And the gearing in your case has taken a big toll - once again a bit confused as to why. I have 265/75R16 which are 32" diameter but with no suspension lift, and have none of the above issues. Maybe I have stumbled upon the best setup, or rather my careful consideration was right first time?

My dampers are a little worn and I am due to buy new suspension at some point, still as unsure as I was at the start whether to lift it (a little bit) or not!!!
 
paul_c said:
I'm surprised you feel the tyres are to blame here. In fact, the self-centring is due to the caster, not the tyres.quote]

yes but the self centering function has a limited amount of force that it applied to the wheels for the self centering. So with much bigger and heavier tyres and more tyre surface on the road it makes turning them harder, not only for the power assist steering which can cope just fine up to a point but also for the return to centre, which doesnt have the hydraulic assist of the steering
so inface even tho the castor has been put back to 'nearly' normal, as it wont ever be normall with a lift on, the tyres are infact to blame for poor return to centre
Click to expand...
 
Cheers, this kind of info reinforces my opinions about what suspension I'll be getting soon. I see an awful lot of kits merely being advertised on their "lift" but not on the ability to provide more articulation, which is what you actually want off roading (plus a bit more lift too, while you're changing it). Also a lot seem to achieve this lift by heavier duty spring rates, which is NOT what you want off road. There's a handful of companies who seem to know what is needed for better off road ability but their kits are invariably in the £700+ range.
 
paul_c said:
Cheers, this kind of info reinforces my opinions about what suspension I'll be getting soon. I see an awful lot of kits merely being advertised on their "lift" but not on the ability to provide more articulation, which is what you actually want off roading (plus a bit more lift too, while you're changing it). Also a lot seem to achieve this lift by heavier duty spring rates, which is NOT what you want off road. There's a handful of companies who seem to know what is needed for better off road ability but their kits are invariably in the £700+ range.
Click to expand...

i have the terrafirma light duty kit, lots of articulation and a soft ride, but if you tow or carry heavy loads its not stiff enough
 
Yeah, Terrafirma kit is the one I think I'll eventually go for (John Craddocks do it). Paddocks do nothing but Britpart rubbish, Glyn Lewis stuff would be nice but just so costly. I did try MM4x4 but I asked them a question about articulation and they never responded. So, pretty poor customer service there (or, their kits were just 'show & no go' lift lits which were crap off road). I had a look around their website, not impressed with some basic spelling/typo mistakes (check out their winch bumbers) but I did find they mislabelled the price of swivel shackles for £0 so did the honourable thing and ordered a pair.
 
The problem with the steering for me, and for anyone fitting larger tyres with low offset wheels is this:

apart from the fact that the contact patch is much bigger, the huge offset wheels i run mean that instead of the wheels actually steering left to right on the spot, they are actually rolling forwards and backwards around the hub.

this is easier to grasp with a plastic ruler.

put the ruler flat on the desk and put your finger in the hole in the end, and hold it firm. then take the other end of the ruler and move it up and down, backwards and forwards, pivoting around your other finger.

the further your moving finger (the tyre) is away from your steady finger (the hub) is, the less it actually twists on the spot, and the more it actually rolls forwards and backwards.

this is why it is impossible for me to go lock to lock woth the brakes on. it was not easy when i used to have my 15x7s on, but with 10" wheels with negative offset it cannot happen.

this explains why the wheels do not return to centre very well, they actually have to roll backwards and forwards to change direction, not just twist on the spot.

the tyres are to blame for the gearing not only because it is like being is 7th gear with them fitted in 5th, but also because they probably weigh twice as much (the rolling weight takes a hell of a lot more energy to move than the sprung/unsprung weight), and it is not really feasible to blow them up hard enough to make them very round, theyre simply too big and soft.

they have quite a sidewall sag at the bottom, and it will take a lot of energy to sag and unsag that sidewall when the tyres goies round every time.

that said, theyre great for scooping round rocks and floating over boggy ground.

cheers :)
 
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