Modus Operandi for rescues ...

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doriz said:
Finally, a Freelander driver who is not in denial ;)
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Yes, one has to be realistic and put things in perspective.

Only once I have got my Freelander back to 4WD and back to its powers most awesome will I be able to refloat the Titanic and recover all the dead frozen bodies from Everest. I may need to put in a couple of calls to LZIR though for a bit of a tug.
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
May I suggest peeps read the welsh thread posts 1-24.
Constructive suggestions about what could have be done differently please.
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Not specifically applicable to this situation, but what about coming up with some sort of disclaimer form members could print off and keep a couple of copy’s in their cars in a poly pocket, handy not just for LZIR but any random time you stop to help someone who may be in a ditch etc.

Something along the lines of...


I .....MHM...... being in charge of the below vehicle, confirm that
I have requested the assistance of .......mojofilter........... and
I am aware that I accept full liability for any damage which
may occur to this vehicle during the recovery process.

Make.....Land Rover.....
Model....Defender........
Reg........AB12 ABC.....

Signed............................. Date............... Location.....................


Not sure what, if any legal standing this would have, but I’m sure it will be someone’s field.
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
May I suggest peeps read the welsh thread posts 1-24.
Constructive suggestions about what could have be done differently please.
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1) The M5 is nowhere near Swansea.

2) Of the "where the feck are..." post you quoted, 1 had replied to say he couldn't attend and the other hasn't been on LZ for 10 months. JM in his own succinct manner alluded to the fact that people were pressured and I have responded to that in a way I feel fair - but also I think it only fair to say that I feel your wording put undue pressure on people to put themselves in positions that they should not. I do not think that this occurred in this event because Brian had already got into trouble - but worth recognising for future events.
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
I believe 4 vehicles were on site. Rapid response was not given. In fact the attempted recovery wasn’t until the day after we were notified.
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My understanding was that one vehicle (Brian) initially responded. Then another vehicle attended to rescue Brian. Then another vehicle (or two?) attended later.

Had the OP been truthful from the beginning (or capable of judging the conditions properly) then a team of equipped vehicles could have arranged a convenient time, perhaps yesterday or today when more people are free, perhaps leaving it a few days in the hope the ground would dry out, to effect a proper recovery of the vehicle.
 
private penguin said:
My understanding was that one vehicle (Brian) initially responded. Then another vehicle attended to rescue Brian. Then another vehicle (or two?) attended later.

Had the OP been truthful from the beginning (or capable of judging the conditions properly) then a team of equipped vehicles could have arranged a convenient time, perhaps yesterday or today when more people are free, perhaps leaving it a few days in the hope the ground would dry out, to effect a proper recovery of the vehicle.
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You could have popped over and applied wax to the returning crew :p
 
Sorry for so little input from myself on this thread (I've bin busy) but it's been read and there's been a lot of chat in the background taking on points raised and how best to address them.

A plan is being formed and the advice given to responders will change to help reduce risk and make recovery threads a useful learning resource for others.

Details will be announced soon.
 
blue beasty said:
Sorry for so little input from myself on this thread (I've bin busy) but it's been read and there's been a lot of chat in the background taking on points raised and how best to address them.

A plan is being formed and the advice given to responders will change to help reduce risk and make recovery threads a useful learning resource for others.

Details will be announced soon.
Click to expand...

How's yer head ?
 
blue beasty said:
Sorry for so little input from myself on this thread (I've bin busy) but it's been read and there's been a lot of chat in the background taking on points raised and how best to address them.

A plan is being formed and the advice given to responders will change to help reduce risk and make recovery threads a useful learning resource for others.

Details will be announced soon.
Click to expand...

Will it includes high vis jackets and safety spectacles?
 
maybe the op didn’t see the signs , lol

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dieseldog69 said:
I'm a machine driver, tracking a machine around the fields and bogs is what I do, the experience I have from operating plant in every environment from peat bogs to building sites with inches of clearance around scaffolding, buildings and men on the ground, and this experience is invaluable as we are performing risk assessments every day, when we lift, tow, sling & strop materials and equipment, I'm talking about the difference between everyone going home safe and all limbs attached or not going home at all, a mere slip, a jerk of the levers, wrong straps used, unsuitable towing/lifting points being used, defective equipment whether it be shackles, chains, strops or ropes, we've learned how to make safe judgements from years of experience.

I am not saying I've never made a bad call, I have, I have also been to the inquests of guys who died on site, these were guys who went to work to do their jobs and never went home. Sadly it was the lessons learned through someone else's mistakes that makes you think twice about what you are doing, not everyone has had such harsh reality checks and fail to see the danger until it's too late.

It probably seems a little morbid to speak of tragedy when nothing much apart from getting a little stuck happened, but that was exactly the same thing that happened a few years back, a Nissan Patrol got stuck, the two guys linked their two tow ropes together with a shackle, completely ignored my warnings and then got the fright of their lives when the eyelet gave out and that innocent shackle became a lethal projectile that wiped out the back window, rear right light cluster and embedded itself through one skin of the steel tailgate, it could easily have killed someone!!!

The question is this, who is ultimately responsible? And who is taking the blame if something goes wrong? We've (most of us living in the 21st century anyways) all got smart phones and I for one am not shy about videoing people in order to preserve my own posterior(you learn fast when your foreman is a prjck who tells lies and gets you in trouble to save their own a$$) and if one day I get the call to help someone in need I will video the scene and their confirmation to take ultimate responsibility for the undertaking of vehicle recovery and their waiver to any damages as a result of the recovery.

This episode in Wales has been an eye opener for some and an "I told you so" moment for others, I don't think we should stop helping folk out, but I do think we should all be aware of our limitations, whether it be our physical fitness, vehicle preparation or the recovery kit we carry, maybe it will encourage more people to go on a winching course, to invest in better recovery points on their vehicles? I don't know, but we all need to be thankful for the people who are prepared to sacrifice their own time and resources to help others.
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I think we are coming from the same place, I work in construction and before I put a 360 to work I would need to do the following: risk assessment for every task the machine would do, this includes separate assessents for each element of work, delivery, moving, actual digging, any lifting etc. The machine would be delivered on a approved lorry, from an approved supplier with a machine to our approval specification. Once arrive the machine would need to be checked for suitability by me. The machine would also be expected to have a daily check (completed daily funny enough) before working. The machine would require a more thorough check as a PDI or weekly check by the hire company as well as the 6 month and yearly certs. The driver would be suitably qualified, CPCS or similar before arrival. This would then be checked by me. The driver would need an induction. Then a task brief and going through the risk assessment. The driver would then have an on site assessent regardless if how qualified he(or she;)) is. I usually get them to change buckets and move them about. The quick hitch (getting technical now) would also need to be of an approved type with the operator familiar and trained on it. If lifting again there would be a lift plan written and briefed, risk assessent and inspection of lifting equipment with various responsibilities dished out-lift supervisor, slinger etc. Of course there would also be the daily restart briefing...
Once all this is complete then the work can start. This is the environment I'm coming from, not saying it's right but even with that lot in place people get hurt or killed. Obviously we cant match that.
 
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goonarmy said:
I think we are coming from the same place, I work in construction and before I put a 360 to work I would need to do the following: risk assessment for every take the machine would do, this includes separate assessents for each element of work, delivery, moving, actual digging, any lifting etc. The machine would be delivered on a approved lorry, from an approved supplier with a machine to our approval specification. Once arrive the machine would need to be checked for suitability by me. The machine would also be expected to have a daily check (completed daily funny enough) before working. The machine would require a more thorough check as a PDI or weekly check by the hire company as well as the 6 month and yearly certs. The driver would be suitably qualified, CPCS or similar before arrival. This would then be checked by me. The driver would need an induction. Then a task brief and going through the risk assessment. The driver would then have an on site assessent regardless if how qualified he(or she;)) is. I usually get them to change buckets and move them about. The quick hitch (getting technical now) would also need to be of an approved type with the operator familiar and trained on it. If lifting again there would be a lift plan written and briefed, risk assessent and inspection of lifting equipment with various responsibilities dished out-lift supervisor, slinger etc. Of course there would also be the daily restart briefing...
Once all this is complete then the work can start. This is the environment I'm coming from, not saying it's right but even with that lot in place people get hurt or killed. Obviously we cant match that.
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All that to dig an ole, fooking ell I've gone boss eyed o_O
 
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