Modus Operandi for rescues ...

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Paul D

Paul D

Old, nackered 'n broke, but the Landy is fine . :)
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Thread to discuss and develop an MO for rescues by LZIR, especially for 'offroad' rescues/recoveries.

So I'll chip in to start off with what I think ...

A definite position must be sent, not a vague 'somewhere in the big woods'. This doesn't need to go public but MHM and BB should at least have it and be the point of contact as usual, and give it to those who might attend. Also the rescuee's phone number, name, vehicle (for an idea of weight) and the rescuee's assessment of what they need and their description of how the vehicle is stuck.

Preferably pictures of the situation and local terrain, as well as a reasonable description of local weather and ground conditions.

Anyone that goes to the point of rescue MUST keep their vehicle safe initially and make an assessment of rescue viability by approaching on foot and working a plan of action out. OK, this might just be "I'll throw you a rope, you tie it on and I'll pull you out" .. but could be complicated with winching, shackles, double winching, more than one vehicle, whatever. MAKE A PLAN.

Anyone else have anything to add. (I do, but I'm a gobby bugger ...)
 
doriz said:
Might sound like a daft question but does level of competence matter, or are we all expert off roasters by dint we own an oval badge?
Click to expand...

Not at all ... it's up to whoever goes to assess their competence, and for a plan for recovery. If anyone visits a scene and doesn't feel confident or competent to help, I'd say well done to them for trying and get the message back that the situation isn't easy. They could easily act as a spotter or be a 'friendly face' for someone stuck ...
 
JohnM70 said:
Regardless of when, where or how, in my view the very first words should be;

Can I do this safely and not put myself or others in danger?
Click to expand...

Yes. Having a number of vehicles stuck never improves the situation. And even the thickest skulled members are unlikely to survive a 4wd landing on top of them.
 
Paul D said:
Thread to discuss and develop an MO for rescues by LZIR, especially for 'offroad' rescues/recoveries.

So I'll chip in to start off with what I think ...

A definite position must be sent, not a vague 'somewhere in the big woods'. This doesn't need to go public but MHM and BB should at least have it and be the point of contact as usual, and give it to those who might attend. Also the rescuee's phone number, name, vehicle (for an idea of weight) and the rescuee's assessment of what they need and their description of how the vehicle is stuck.

Preferably pictures of the situation and local terrain, as well as a reasonable description of local weather and ground conditions.

Anyone that goes to the point of rescue MUST keep their vehicle safe initially and make an assessment of rescue viability by approaching on foot and working a plan of action out. OK, this might just be "I'll throw you a rope, you tie it on and I'll pull you out" .. but could be complicated with winching, shackles, double winching, more than one vehicle, whatever. MAKE A PLAN.

Anyone else have anything to add. (I do, but I'm a gobby bugger ...)
Click to expand...

Maybe is the vehicle in trouble on a legal road or byway, or with permission if on private land?
And is the vehicle and driver covered by full insurance in the situation it is in?

doriz said:
Might sound like a daft question but does level of competence matter, or are we all expert off roasters by dint we own an oval badge?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Some young farmers etc. are pretty gung ho about this stuff. An experienced hobbyist who has been competing in trials, etc. for years, can be pretty good.

goonarmy said:
I would suggest that the vehicle stuck needs to be accessible by legal means. And this would need to eveidenced.
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As above, and are they insured in an off road situation. Not all policies cover laneing or off road use.
 
Yes, the bulk of this thread does make sense.
In the case of the incident which has given rise to this thread, the first report that I got was "a Honda CR-V has slipped sideways off the track and into the ditch". OK I thought anywhere a CR-V can get a Land Rover can go.
There was no location give other than the postcode and that I should be able to recognise the OP since he was wearing a Hi-Vis jacket. Even though I had asked, there was no information forthcoming regarding actual location, NGR, condition of the track or any other way out. By the time I realised that the track was unsuitable, there was no other way to go but forwards.
So, Yes in future where an off-road rescue is called for the requester should provide a lot more information regarding the actual circumstance with pictures if possible.
And there is a difference between off-road and off-piste. Sadly that describes many of the tracks on the hills and mountains of South Wales.
 
I think any recovery efforts need to follow similar approach of the emergency services where they make the decision to either rescue the person only (leaving the vehicle where it is) or rescue both. Bear in mind the time of day and amount of day light available with respect to the amount of time said recovery (either option) will take. This all needs to be done with careful judgement of your own capability to recover said person and said vehicle. Having a 4x4 and recovery kit doesn't automatically mean yer will be able to carry out the recovery. Peeps need to be prepared to not recover the vehicle if the risk of them or their vehicle getting stuck/damaged/broke'd is too high. The route you choose to take to get yer vehicle to the location needs to be walked before it is driven, to limit you getting stuck. More than one person (and vehicle I think) should attend at the same time for security reasons.
 
neilly said:
One point I think should be confirmed is .

Does the person stuck, accept responsibility for any damage done too their stuck vehicle during a recovery??.

Cheers
Click to expand...

That is what has always put me off recovering anyone other than my own workers, or experienced fellow farmers.

You can guarantee that in today's world, you will run up against someone who tries to sue you for damaging their vehicle during the recovery.

I once asked Ratty, who is a recovery pro. He suggested getting a signed disclaimer before taking any recovery action, unless you are a recovery company with specialist insurance.
 
Turboman said:
That is what has always put me off recovering anyone other than my own workers, or experienced fellow farmers.

You can guarantee that in today's world, you will run up against someone who tries to sue you for damaging their vehicle during the recovery.

I once asked Ratty, who is a recovery pro. He suggested getting a signed disclaimer before taking any recovery action, unless you are a recovery company with specialist insurance.
Click to expand...
I've signed disclaimers by recovery firms when being recovered (and when I locked me keys in:rolleyes:), even the specilists like to mitigate the risk away from themselves. Would like to think that wouldn't be required. But in the world we are in maybe a good idea.
 
goonarmy said:
I've signed disclaimers by recovery firms when being recovered (and when I locked me keys in:rolleyes:), even the specilists like to mitigate the risk away from themselves. Would like to think that wouldn't be required. But in the world we are in maybe a good idea.
Click to expand...

Just try and size up the individuals concerned, I suppose. Should be OK of it is yer mates, not so easy with someone you have never met, or maybe even never posted on the forum before.

Even nice people have a habit of turning funny when they are presented with a bill for large sums of money. Modern vehicles can be very expensive to repair. Even minor damage to bodywork, lights, etc.
 
yes i agree its an awkward one ive not that much damage she,ll live broken snorkel top and wind deflector and quite a few tree lines to t cut out lol .and i think the person stuck should have an idea of the type of recovery it needs because like in the pictures brian took it looked nice and fine but when i got there it was a very diff story very
 
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