Modus Operandi for rescues ...

jamesmartin said:

both have their risks the local beach is more like morcambe bay, its not just straight sand

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There is the rusting chassis of a landrover buried in the sand near Hayle. It tried to drive along the beach about 25 years ago. Got stuck, the tide came in, and it was buried. But the occupants escaped on foot.
Snatch recovery can present a threat to life on the flat, I have seen the front bumper detached from a landrover when snatched too hard. We gave it up after that.
Once a tractor went right down on a farm I was working on. It was a swamp, and way out in the field, away from any trees.
The owner decided to leave it there, and cover it with a tarp until the ground dried out, rather than risk his other vehicles to recover it.

And another fing:
If someone does go out to help someone I think they need to "call in" to say they is on site, confirm they feel safe with the person they've met (dial a LR and nick it.com) and confirm the eggsact location via grid ref or similar before things go further. Just in case there's a problem and we need to get help to them or hand the situation over to 999

Turboman said:

There is the rusting chassis of a landrover buried in the sand near Hayle. It tried to drive along the beach about 25 years ago. Got stuck, the tide came in, and it was buried. But the occupants escaped on foot.

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Dippypud said:

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Not quite so much of it left now.

Turboman said:

Not quite so much of it left now.

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This is how it looked before it went in ...

Hippo said:

And another fing:
If someone does go out to help someone I think they need to "call in" to say they is on site, confirm they feel safe with the person they've met (dial a LR and nick it.com) and confirm the eggsact location via grid ref or similar before things go further. Just in case there's a problem and we need to get help to them or hand the situation over to 999

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We always suggest going in pairs and assess prior to committing. It is foolhardy not to.
I have suggested apps like “I am here” or “Zello” previously for that application. No-one could be bothered.

neilly said:

Great effort Brian and I applaud you for attempting to help out in what turned out to be on extreme terrain.

In light of what this thread is attempting to do.

What would you say you should have done differently if anything on this occasion? as a leesons to be learned if any and advice for others?

Cheers

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What lessons can be learned? That's a difficult one. I did ask the member in trouble about the track as we entered it and he replied that it was suitable for even 15 ton coal lorries in the past. You can enquire all you want from the individual in trouble and they're going to come back with their own coloured view of the situation.
Yes, walk the route if possible, but when people such as I are faced with the situation, at just over 70 and with back and leg problems (before I twisted my ankle) and COPD to cap it all, I'd have been in even worse trouble had I done that.
Where possible the individual should be asked to provide information regarding the exact location, NGR or lat/long, a complete description of the location and access as it pertains at the time of the proposed rescue, not the condition it was in at the height of summer. Pictures should be provided where possible.
A complete description of the nature of the trouble should be provided too, "just slipped off the track" in all honesty doesn't really add much.

brian47 said:

What lessons can be learned? That's a difficult one. I did ask the member in trouble about the track as we entered it and he replied that it was suitable for even 15 ton coal lorries in the past. You can enquire all you want from the individual in trouble and they're going to come back with their own coloured view of the situation.
Yes, walk the route if possible, but when people such as I are faced with the situation, at just over 70 and with back and leg problems (before I twisted my ankle) and COPD to cap it all, I'd have been in even worse trouble had I done that.
Where possible the individual should be asked to provide information regarding the exact location, NGR or lat/long, a complete description of the location and access as it pertains at the time of the proposed rescue, not the condition it was in at the height of summer. Pictures should be provided where possible.
A complete description of the nature of the trouble should be provided too, "just slipped off the track" in all honesty doesn't really add much.

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I don't believe coal lorries have ever used that track, especially at this time of year.

I do suspect OP was a lying toad.

Tricky one this IMO, no one has even mentioned safeguarding yet. If I were to get stuck and one of you great guys or girls came out to help and wrenched mi front bumper oft, I would take it on the chin for bin a muppet, however, like you point out we ain't all fair.

The Mad Hat Man said:

We always suggest going in pairs and assess prior to committing. It is foolhardy not to.
I have suggested apps like “I am here” or “Zello” previously for that application. No-one could be bothered.

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Zello looks a good option - I think you can use it as a group call sort of thing.

JohnM70 said:

Zello looks a good option - I think you can use it as a group call sort of thing.

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That is what it is designed for. Look for LZIR

The Mad Hat Man said:

That is what it is designed for. Look for LZIR

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Can't find you...

Sorry I'm late to the party, I'm sat waiting for the AA with a blown head gasket with no reception and just worked out how to Pikey WiFi.

While it's true LZIR is a just a means of putting people in touch with each other and is not responsible for what happens we do have guidelines that clearly didn't prevent a bad situation getting worse and need reassessing.

The main thing that would have made the difference last night is a strong recommendation to assess the situation on foot before approaching with a vehicle.

I spoke to the OP and tried to get an assessment of the conditions and having later seen the photo it wasn't very accurate or even honest but how much of that is down to deception or inexperience I have no idea.

I passed the assessment on to those willing to consider responding along with the assurance I had been given that permission for recovery vehicles to enter had been given.

What we do about people who haven't got insurance I don't know, it's never occurred to me to even ask before let alone have a procedure for finding out if they are telling the truth.

it seem obvious number plate needs checking apart from situation prior to asking for volunteers

blue beasty said:

What we do about people who haven't got insurance I don't know, it's never occurred to me to even ask before let alone have a procedure for finding out if they are telling the truth.

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That is a simple check on ASKMID.

A two minute job.

Cheers

Having read through various threads, especially the ones that are seem to involve multiple 'responders' in somewhat interesting circumstances, it strikes me that to date, everyone has been rather lucky.

My fear is that somebody, someday, will join LZ, ask for help then either claim damage to their vehicle and look to reclaim (make) some money or worse, they get injured (apparently) and get on the phone to Injury lawyers.com

That would cause LZIR to have to ask some serious questions of itself, how volunteers view their involvement and who is ultimately liable. You can bet that a good shark / lawyer would not only go after whoever may have turned up to help but also who sent them and what method those that do have to check said responders are competent etc.

It's not an easy situation

Not easy to assess the truth. Once we start having to check credentials, it becomes unwieldy.
It has to be down to the assessment of any that volunteer to go on site. I, for one, would never criticise someone who decided, after looking, “it’s not for me”.

Hippo said:

And another fing:
If someone does go out to help someone I think they need to "call in" to say they is on site, confirm they feel safe with the person they've met (dial a LR and nick it.com) and confirm the eggsact location via grid ref or similar before things go further. Just in case there's a problem and we need to get help to them or hand the situation over to 999

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Communication on site was patchy and difficult but the more there is the better.

I did manage to get a better assessment of conditions by speaking to Brian on the OPs phone.... unfortunately after he became stuck.

Part of the problem with things becoming a joint effort across platforms is nobody knows what everyone is planning or doing.

The answer is simple. If you want to help, sign up and follow the recommendations. If you don’t want to, don’t sign up.
If you think you can do a better job, use your time and phone to do all these checks and try and contact peeps that won’t respond, please be my guest.

JohnM70 said:

Having read through various threads, especially the ones that are seem to involve multiple 'responders' in somewhat interesting circumstances, it strikes me that to date, everyone has been rather lucky.

My fear is that somebody, someday, will join LZ, ask for help then either claim damage to their vehicle and look to reclaim (make) some money or worse, they get injured (apparently) and get on the phone to Injury lawyers.com

That would cause LZIR to have to ask some serious questions of itself, how volunteers view their involvement and who is ultimately liable. You can bet that a good shark / lawyer would not only go after whoever may have turned up to help but also who sent them and what method those that do have to check said responders are competent etc.

It's not an easy situation

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Isn't that similar to the Uber / cab argument ?

All LZIR are doing is putting those with a need, in contact with those who wish to help ...