Long time to start

Hi,

Probably gonna answer my on question while typing but here goes -

P38 2.5 - in this weather my RR is taking a few attempts to start. Never had a Hot Start problem either.

It just trys and trys and trys, each time i let the glow plug light do it stuff and the try. takes about 3-5 attempts.

I first thought battery - but then thought 5 long cranks wouldn't be possible with a crappy battery? would it?

Also when it does go (Has go eventually every time, fingers crossed still will), there is a massive cloud of black crap! guessing just fuel that has gone in and not burnt?

Sorry for poor descriptions, but am not very technical. Haven't got a multimeter at present...will got one asap thou.

Any ideas?
Thanks in Advance as always!!
James

check glow plugs,and battery and starter need to be in good enough condition to spin engine fast enough ,only noticeable when cold

Wow quick response!

Ok, i'm slightly thick, but will give most things a go - what am i checking for?

The battery voltage I'm guessing, what is good voltages? i.e. not running, running, cranking etc?

the starter? seems fine has always started it so far??

glow plugs? are they good if the light goes out? or is that just a timer on the light?

cheers!

jamesmartin said:

check glow plugs,and battery and starter need to be in good enough condition to spin engine fast enough ,only noticeable when cold

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Grammar mark 2/10 Poor

Check the glow plugs. The battery and starter need to be in good enough condition to spin engine fast enough. This problem may only be noticeable when the engine is cold.

could pos be slight air leak ,seeping in whilst stood overnight, so having to bleed itself first?

Symptoms are classic glow plug failure. Check the voltage at the glowplugs but I would bet if you buy a set of good quality glowplugs (Delphi, NGK, Bosch, Beru or OEM) you will cure the problem.

Air leak? In the fuel lines??

Keith, what should voltage be? how to test? are they easy to change? i.e. could i cope?

James

jamesblake said:

Air leak? In the fuel lines??

Keith, what should voltage be? how to test? are they easy to change? i.e. could i cope?

James

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had it on my disco . it gave same symtoms you describe

jamesblake said:

Air leak? In the fuel lines??

Keith, what should voltage be? how to test? are they easy to change? i.e. could i cope?

James

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I doubt it's a fueling problem as you say you get lots of black smoke when it eventually starts which say's plenty of fuel.
To test the voltage stick a DVM from the top of one glowplug to earth and get someone to turn the key, you should see 10 volts give or take a bit.
Changing the glowplugs is easy but you will need to remove the inlet manifold. So as well as a set of glowplugs you will need a manifold gasket set.

Lots of black smoke does mean fuel is getting through and not burnt, but could still a fuel problem, when it does start does it splutter for a bit or does it just fire?

marmitemania said:

Lots of black smoke does mean fuel is getting through and not burnt, but could still a fuel problem, when it does start does it splutter for a bit or does it just fire?

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A cold non DI diesel with no working glowplugs will often appear to splutter as one or more cylinders fail to fire until the revs come up.

Cheers Keith!!

i will test when i can find my multimeter....

Marmite, no cough, no splutter...just a cloud of blackness.

jamesblake said:

Cheers Keith!!

i will test when i can find my multimeter....

Marmite, no cough, no splutter...just a cloud of blackness.

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it does sound like duff glow plugs check voltage at glow plugs,not a bad job to do,inlet manifold off new gaskets refit happy days i put in o.e.m in mine no problems apart from a steadily failing battery

When you have the manifold off just change all the glow plugs even if you find some are still working cause sure as hell you will be back doing the same thing again soon enough if you dont. I fitted Delphi and am happy with them.
Davie

Cheers guys! i will test, but on ur guesses i think its solved already.

anyone know a good site / ebay shop? to get both bits from?

cheers!

jamesblake said:

Cheers guys! i will test, but on ur guesses i think its solved already.

anyone know a good site / ebay shop? to get both bits from?

cheers!

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I bought my intake manifold rings on-line but I went to Euro Car Parts (no connection to me, just handy) for the plugs. Only because I wanted to see exactly what I was getting rather than opening the parcel, finding some Chinese crap, and having to go through the palaver of sending them back. I put Delphis in and it starts first time every time, even with the wee Halfords battery that still there from when I bought the car three years ago.

As for fitting them, if you've ever changed spark plugs in a petrol engine then you can change heater plugs in a diesel. Basically the same job, just take time and care.

Just don't apply too much pressure to the glow plugs when you try to undo them. If the are very tight run the engine to warm them up a bit, you can do that with the manifold off, or apply some release agent not WD40 and let them soak for a bit.

Measuring voltage at the glow plug only tells you if the electricity is reaching the plug connection terminal. It does not tell you if the plug is working.

For that you need to measure RESISTANCE (Ohms) from plug tip terminal to the body, or the CURRENT in the cable when the plug is supposed to be heating.

It's all a bit variable, but when cold, a plug might measure about 1 ohm resistance, and when heating it might draw about 10 amps current.

It still isn't worth the trouble. Old age definitely degrades glow plug performance.
New good quality plugs make a huge difference to cold starting.
Replace them, and use plenty of copper-grease.

Datatek said:

Just don't apply too much pressure to the glow plugs when you try to undo them. If the are very tight run the engine to warm them up a bit, you can do that with the manifold off, or apply some release agent not WD40 and let them soak for a bit.

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Just out of curiosity, why not wd40? Also how do you run it with the manifold off? Thanks.

Gazza36 said:

Just out of curiosity, why not wd40? Also how do you run it with the manifold off? Thanks.

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WD40 is not an oil, release/easing agent or electrical contact cleaner....

It is a Water Disspersant and should never be used for anything else....