P38A locked out

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
T

tomcat59alan

Well-Known Member
Posts
18,611
Location
wirral and triquivijate
Morning all, as per title.Car is superlocked. cannot enter eka , code,lock rod is attached done a search but nothing answers my problem. While clearing the garage looking for lock parts for @martyuk I found a set of micro switches the same as on the lock on the car,i.e.two plug type Just wondering if I can plug these in and use them to enter the code,if so which one is lock and which unlock? Cannot use nanocom as obd socket is dead and as its an early model may not even be able to because of the early becm. Would have phoned you Martin but having difficulty with speaking due to throat problem. I think the power to odb is the drivers foot well connectors, may even be the reason for eka failure, so need the drivers door open.I have gained access to the car through the tailgate all sill locks are lifted and no doors open
 
Alan,
If you cannot get hold of Marty, probably best first step would be to try to sort the Diagnostic socket communications to BECM. Main thing you need is Ground (pins 4 & 5) plus 12V (pin 16), plus the BECM data lines (pins 7 & 15). I assume you can open the bonnet & check the fuse ?

If you get communications working, then in BECM Inputs you can check the microswitch status without tearing the door panel off. Then try the outputs menu to trigger the locks out of super locked state ?

Pete
 
Hello mate, sorry to hear that
a) You are STILL superlocked locked out.
b) You are not feeling so great.
I agree that Marty is the main man on this and do not want to poke my nose in and muddy the waters. But.. (always a but) I found this from Marty from 2014.
upload_2020-7-6_11-58-55.png

With the following special NOTE:
upload_2020-7-6_11-59-43.png

So IF the switch is knackered and always short Cct, no signals are ever sent to the BeCM because a middle or "null" position is never sensed.
Hope this helps. Dan.
 
pwood999 said:
Alan,
If you cannot get hold of Marty, probably best first step would be to try to sort the Diagnostic socket communications to BECM. Main thing you need is Ground (pins 4 & 5) plus 12V (pin 16), plus the BECM data lines (pins 7 & 15). I assume you can open the bonnet & check the fuse ?

If you get communications working, then in BECM Inputs you can check the microswitch status without tearing the door panel off. Then try the outputs menu to trigger the locks out of super locked state ?

Pete
Click to expand...
Thanks Pete,I have grounds at 4 and 5 but no power at 16, @wammers and I had a long phone call about this ,when I could speak.that's how I think the problem is at c102 or c202.As for 7 and 15 I guess they terminate at the becm its such an awkward position to work in ,both front seats are as far back as they will go and fully reclined.the door card is nearly off anyway. Just thought if I could use the micro switches and get the door open then I could sort the connectors. Good job its not my daily drive otherwise it would have been up in flames years ago. When I spoke to warmers he said because of the series of becm probably fitted I may not be able to enter the code with nanocom. The car was first registered in Dec 94.Regards Alan
 
Yep, fuse 33, 5A may be enough to get the OBD socket working. Other than that, if you cd get the door card off you can intercept the wiring and simulate the micro-switch connection - which I suppose means you could also attach your own micro-switches and/ or switches to make/ break the relevant connections
 
romanrob said:
Yep, fuse 33, 5A may be enough to get the OBD socket working. Other than that, if you cd get the door card off you can intercept the wiring and simulate the microswitch connection - which I suppose mans you could also attach your own microswitches and/ or switches to do the same[/QUO
Sorry meant to add I've checked fuse 33 all ok which lead us to think its the foot well connectors drivers side in my youth I could have get into all sorts of positions but alas if I got down there I may not be able to get out.:eek::D:eek::D
Click to expand...
 
tomcat59alan said:
Thanks Pete,I have grounds at 4 and 5 but no power at 16, @wammers and I had a long phone call about this ,when I could speak.that's how I think the problem is at c102 or c202.As for 7 and 15 I guess they terminate at the becm its such an awkward position to work in ,both front seats are as far back as they will go and fully reclined.the door card is nearly off anyway. Just thought if I could use the micro switches and get the door open then I could sort the connectors. Good job its not my daily drive otherwise it would have been up in flames years ago. When I spoke to warmers he said because of the series of becm probably fitted I may not be able to enter the code with nanocom. The car was first registered in Dec 94.Regards Alan
Click to expand...
 
DanClarke said:
Hello mate, sorry to hear that
a) You are STILL superlocked locked out.
b) You are not feeling so great.
I agree that Marty is the main man on this and do not want to poke my nose in and muddy the waters. But.. (always a but) I found this from Marty from 2014.
View attachment 214066
With the following special NOTE:
View attachment 214067
So IF the switch is knackered and always short Cct, no signals are ever sent to the BeCM because a middle or "null" position is never sensed.
Hope this helps. Dan.
Click to expand...
Yes and no Dan, Ta so the answer is no I cannot use the microswitch set,I could I suppose take the lock off the red one and plug it into the black one ( p38 's) to enter the code as long as the wiring doesn't go through the connectors by the A post otherwise I'm back to trying to get the kick panel off ,oh to have been born a contortionist.
 
Re BECM, you need v36 or later. I was helping someone with a '96 and that had v37, so you could well be ok. Do you have any saved/old screenshots from the BeCM menu (assuming your nano worked, at some point) that you could look at to check what version you have?
 
romanrob said:
Re BECM, you need v36 or later. I was helping someone with a '96 and that had v37, so you could well be ok. Do you have any saved/old screenshots from the BeCM menu (assuming your nano worked, at some point) that you could look at to check what version you have?
Click to expand...
Thanks mate, that's what @wammers said, the black one is a Dec 94 do unless its had a becm change I'm not holding my breath. This car has been stood for many years do I guess there is a lit of corroded connections. I only bought it because it had been fitted with a new 4.6 engine and a recon gearbox, both had done less than 4k before being parked up.it has LPG as well.Four strokes put the project on hold, I can only do a bit when I feel up to it.:(
 
tomcat59alan said:
Thanks mate, that's what @wammers said, the black one is a Dec 94 do unless its had a becm change I'm not holding my breath. This car has been stood for many years do I guess there is a lit of corroded connections. I only bought it because it had been fitted with a new 4.6 engine and a recon gearbox, both had done less than 4k before being parked up.it has LPG as well.Four strokes put the project on hold, I can only do a bit when I feel up to it.:(
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear about the four strokes... car sounds a good one though. If you use S3 in the ETM it give s you the wiring for the lock actuator. I've read posts before which talk about which wires to ground out at the lock to simulate lock and unlock. I think if you look for marty nz posts on rangerovers.net it will give you what you need, else I'll have to try and work it out from first principles
 
romanrob said:
Sorry to hear about the four strokes... car sounds a good one though. If you use S3 in the ETM it give s you the wiring for the lock actuator. I've read posts before which talk about which wires to ground out at the lock to simulate lock and unlock. I think if you look for marty nz posts on rangerovers.net it will give you what you need, else I'll have to try and work it out from first principles
Click to expand...
That would be very kind of you I would be obliged.
 
Someone may come by who's done this for real...

Pin 8 on C758 orange/ pink wire on the outstation is what drives the super lock motor at pin 5 c762 [S3 ETM]. It may need a pulse (of the right polarity) to drive the motor to cause it to unlock.

This thread by Sloth describes how he intercepted the wiring in the door to input the eka, and so bypass the microswitches https://www.rangerovers.net/threads...anaged-it-but-unsure-how.163545/#post-1168193

Re the above, you may also need to know that: the CDL switch is at pin 3 on C762 at the lock and pin 5 on c758 at the outstation. The Key switch is at pin2 on c762 and pin 6 on c758 blue/red wire
 
romanrob said:
Someone may come by who's done this for real...

Pin 8 on C758 orange/ pink wire on the outstation is what drives the super lock motor at pin 5 c762 [S3 ETM]. It may need a pulse (of the right polarity) to drive the motor to cause it to unlock.

This thread by Sloth describes how he intercepted the wiring in the door to input the eka, and so bypass the microswitches https://www.rangerovers.net/threads...anaged-it-but-unsure-how.163545/#post-1168193

Re the above, you may also need to know that: the CDL switch is at pin 3 on C762 at the lock and pin 5 on c758 at the outstation. The Key switch is at pin2 on c72 and pin 6 on c758 blue/red wire
Click to expand...
Thank you very much,will have a read and report back, @RangeRoller dt ,hopefully tomorrow but I've just seen the Enemy come in with paint.:eek:
 
Alan,
Are you also getting Keycode issues on the dash when using the key in Ignition ?
tomcat59alan said:
Thanks Pete,I have grounds at 4 and 5 but no power at 16, @wammers and I had a long phone call about this ,when I could speak.that's how I think the problem is at c102 or c202.As for 7 and 15 I guess they terminate at the becm its such an awkward position to work in ,both front seats are as far back as they will go and fully reclined.the door card is nearly off anyway. Just thought if I could use the micro switches and get the door open then I could sort the connectors. Good job its not my daily drive otherwise it would have been up in flames years ago. When I spoke to warmers he said because of the series of becm probably fitted I may not be able to enter the code with Nanocom. The car was first registered in Dec 94.Regards Alan
Click to expand...

C102 / C202 are behind the RH Kick panel, and I know they are hard to access even in normal conditions. Assuming you can open the bonnet, maybe temporarily run 12V direct from battery to Pin-16 on the Diag connector. This will get Nanocom to boot up, so you can then try talking to the BECM.

Regarding my earlier post, I just checked using Nanocom BECM outputs while car is locked. It seems that Nanocm cannot talk to BECM while the car is locked, so you cannot cycle the locks that way.

So options seem to be, either:
  1. Remove door card & get access to the microswitch wiring, and do the "fake it" sequences. With door card off, you could also apply 12V briefly to the lock motors, and maybe get superlock disengaged at least on the drivers door ?
  2. Get the FOB to BECM working and try getting the car into "unlocked status" even if the motors are still engaged. Then you could check the microswitch status via Nanocom.
Unfortunately cannot find any option in Nanocom to trigger the superlock to disengage ? Maybe there's another way with Faultmate or something ?
 
romanrob said:
Someone may come by who's done this for real...

Pin 8 on C758 orange/ pink wire on the outstation is what drives the super lock motor at pin 5 c762 [S3 ETM]. It may need a pulse (of the right polarity) to drive the motor to cause it to unlock.

This thread by Sloth describes how he intercepted the wiring in the door to input the eka, and so bypass the microswitches https://www.rangerovers.net/threads...anaged-it-but-unsure-how.163545/#post-1168193

Re the above, you may also need to know that: the CDL switch is at pin 3 on C762 at the lock and pin 5 on c758 at the outstation. The Key switch is at pin2 on c762 and pin 6 on c758 blue/red wire
Click to expand...

You need 12V across Pins 2 & 8 on C758 to the drive the superlock motor. The outstation swaps the polarity to drive the motor each way. Similarly the lock motor uses Pins 2 & 1. Neither motor is grounded directly.
 
There is not point driving the superlock motor. It is ONLY used to superlock the door. The door locking is done in 2 stages. The normal central locking is done by driving the motor common as -ve and the CDL motor wire as +ve, which then drives the mechanism to lock the door.

The internal locking lever clicks over and locks the door. The superlock is done by moving a spring loaded pawl, for the central locking motor to them move the locking mechanism a second time to the superlock position. The superlock pawl, when not driven by the superlock motor is effectively the end stop for the normal central locking. Unlocking is done just by driving the CDL motor, with +ve applied to the motor common, and -ve to the CDL motor wire. It will then move the locking lever all the way back to the unlock position (sometimes it needs to be pulsed twice as it will move from superlock to lock, and then lock to unlock. It depends on how gunked the latch is as the locking lever is also sprung in each postion).

TL:DR... superlock motor is used ONLY to superlock the latch - to unlock from super or normal locked, you only need to drive the CDL motor.

Microswitches... oh this joy...

Either way to mimic the latch to enter the EKA, you need to be able to get the door card off and get to the wiring inside the door. All of the comms from the outstation to the BECM go through connectors up the A pillar, which you can only get to with the drivers door open. And even then they are all driven off a serial link, so to mimic the actual physical inputs to the BECM, then it needs to be done in the door wiring. Likewise to drive the motors for the front door locks, this has to be done in the door wiring from the outstation to the latch.

Assuming you can go this, then you can make up a set of switches (Like Sloth did in the thread linked to). You would need one momentary Push to Make switch (to mimic the key switch) and then a standard on/off switch (to mimic the CDL switch)

Wiring colours are as follows (from the outstation to the latch):
Black - common to all microswitches
Blue/Red - Key Switch
Green/Red - CDL Switch

Wiring would be as follows:
Black wire to one terminal of both switches
Blue/Red wire to the Momentary switch
Green/Red to the On/Off switch.

That would then allow you to mimic door locked (on/off switch in the ON position) and unlocked (on/off switch in the OFF position), and the key being turned in either direction (pressing on the momentary switch). You can then use the combination of those to enter the EKA.

Bearing in mind... this will only then work if a) you have the EKA code, and it is correct for the vehicle and b) the BECM isn't in alarm lockout, which would then lock it out from accepting the EKA and it would then need to be removed and sent to someone like myself to have the CPU settings read and the lockouts reset that way.

I do have a few ideas and possible methods for being able to command the outstations using an external piece of kit, but haven't had time to work much on this as I've been too busy resetting BECM lockouts, repairing BECMs and key fobs and rebuilding door latches!

I hope this information is of use.
Marty
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

TITCH SANDERS
Alarm going off, Engine Immobilised 2002 V8
Replies
13
Views
1K
Mark Piercy
Mark Piercy
P
  • Poll
P38A P1621 on a 1998 Gems 4.6 using RSW V4
Replies
2
Views
563
Datatek
Datatek
G
P38 Keys not working
Replies
14
Views
2K
Grrrrrr
Grrrrrr
kermit_rr
L322 keyfob signal not received
3 4 5
Replies
93
Views
3K
kermit_rr
kermit_rr
R
L322 electrical issues
Replies
9
Views
714
rik^^
R
Back
Top