Legality of no bumpers?

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Probably cause less injurys with rather heavy and square bumper removed. The
bumper is to protect the wings not pedestrians. At least that was the idea
back in the forties when it was designed.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Larry wrote:
> > How ridiculos, supposing you have an accident the result of which is to
> > remove your bumper, not going to invalidate insurance is it, How many

cars
> > do you see driving around with sundry damage awaiting insurers approval

for
> > the estimates etc ???

>
> I think if you were to have an accident without a "safety feature"
> working, your insurers would be VERY interested. If, in consequence, a
> pedestrian was injured, the pedestrian would make a very great deal out
> of it too.
>
> Steve



 
The question is on an ninth hand motor into its third decade does any
insurance company have the first idea what was there when I bought it or
not......... I do not think so.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes





"Danny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Larry wrote:
> > To return to insurance.
> >
> > In essence the small print is there to make sure you do not make unsafe
> > modifications to the car, such as a bigger engine, or other technical

mods.
> > I do not think they are really concerned about changing seats, go faster
> > stripes and the kitchen sink in the back.

> -snip-
>
> Insurance companies are very interested in exactly those mods -
> changing the wheels or adding other seemingly innocent items has
> resulted in many claims not being met since the vehicle was modified
> and this changed the assessment of the theft risk, for instance.
>
> I changed the screen on my bike for an aftermarket screen (taller) and
> was told that my insurance would be invalidated if they weren't informed.
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
> http://www.dannyscoffee.com (UK advert for my mobile espresso service)
> http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/European online ordering for Malabar
> Gold blend)
> swap Z for above characters in email address to reply
>



 
> The question is on an ninth hand motor into its third decade does any
> insurance company have the first idea what was there when I bought it or
> not......... I do not think so.
>

It doesn't matter what was there when you bought it, its what is there now
that counts. If it has been modified from factory specification, then it is
modified, it matters not that the modification was done before you bought
it, it is still a modified vehicle, and your insurance needs to know about
it.


 
Danny wrote:

> Insurance companies are very interested in exactly those mods - changing
> the wheels or adding other seemingly innocent items has resulted in many
> claims not being met since the vehicle was modified and this changed the
> assessment of the theft risk, for instance.


How do these boy-racer folks get away with these spinning blades on
their wheels ? How on earth are they legal.

Steve
 
Larry came up with the following;:
> Probably cause less injurys with rather heavy and square bumper removed.
> The bumper is to protect the wings not pedestrians. At least that was the
> idea back in the forties when it was designed.


The Disco, which is what I have and was being discussed, wasn't designed in
the forties.

;)


--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
Byway acccess issues http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
They need support http://www.rnli.org.uk/Home.asp

 
Larry came up with the following;:

> No working series vehicle of any vintage is worth its salt if it is bog
> standard, they are a utility vehicle and a load lugger, if the insurance
> company does not understand that, then it is time to find another company.


It's not a series Landrover, we changed from a series to a Disco.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
Byway acccess issues http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
They need support http://www.rnli.org.uk/Home.asp

 
I don't look at them too closely at Disco's, you mean they are infected with
the pervasive design disease of modern car bumpers all plastic and get
mangled on the slightest impact :(


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Paul - xxx" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The Disco, which is what I have and was being discussed, wasn't designed

in
> the forties.
>
> ;)
>
>
> --
> Paul ...
> (8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
> Byway acccess issues http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
> They need support http://www.rnli.org.uk/Home.asp
>



 
That is if anyone knows, I suspect the engine is not original because it
should not be a 5 main bearing, but when that was changed you cannot expect
me to know,

Does an insurance company seriosly expect you to have the whole thing
dismantled and every bolt checked to see if it is original spec.

There are limits and common law is predicated upon reasonable knowlege of
things.


If you take things too literally, I should inform them that I have changed
the sealed beam headlamps, and attached new lights to the roof rack,
notwithstanding a box thereon. I franky do not think they would really
appreciate the beurocracy.

There are limits to everything and notions of common sence. I have in my
time had insurance payouts on varios vehicles including a total write off.
Now the write off had an electric fan that was not standard, a grille and
auxilliary lamps that weren't standard and I don't know what else, was
anyone interested ... NO.

The only time I ever had any difficulty was when I changed an engine when
they at first insisted on an engineers report and then saw sence that it was
no necessary for a straigtforward recon engine swap notified to the DVLA.

Next you will say a set of Halfords Wiper blades invalidates insurance, any
company that tried that on would be the ones who were sorry.

Small print notwithstanding there are unenforcable terms in many contracts
simply because they exceed what the law of contract allows.



--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes




"SimonJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > The question is on an ninth hand motor into its third decade does any
> > insurance company have the first idea what was there when I bought it or
> > not......... I do not think so.
> >

> It doesn't matter what was there when you bought it, its what is there now
> that counts. If it has been modified from factory specification, then it

is
> modified, it matters not that the modification was done before you bought
> it, it is still a modified vehicle, and your insurance needs to know about
> it.
>
>



 
In message <[email protected]>, Larry
<[email protected]> writes
>Probably cause less injurys with rather heavy and square bumper removed. The
>bumper is to protect the wings not pedestrians. At least that was the idea
>back in the forties when it was designed.
>
>

I always thought it was to knock 'em down effectively thereby ensuring
they are flat before you run over them, thus causing the minimum
disruption to your forward progression.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
> That is if anyone knows, I suspect the engine is not original because it
> should not be a 5 main bearing, but when that was changed you cannot

expect
> me to know,
>

So if Mr Boy Racer buys himself a 1.1 nova, insures it as such, and the
insurance find out that the car had been fitted with a 2 litre engine before
Mr Racer bought it, do you think they will pay out?


 
In message <[email protected]>, Larry
<[email protected]> writes
>That is if anyone knows, I suspect the engine is not original because it
>should not be a 5 main bearing, but when that was changed you cannot expect
>me to know,
>
>Does an insurance company seriosly expect you to have the whole thing
>dismantled and every bolt checked to see if it is original spec.
>
>There are limits and common law is predicated upon reasonable knowlege of
>things.
>
>
>If you take things too literally, I should inform them that I have changed
>the sealed beam headlamps, and attached new lights to the roof rack,
>notwithstanding a box thereon. I franky do not think they would really
>appreciate the beurocracy.
>
>There are limits to everything and notions of common sence. I have in my
>time had insurance payouts on varios vehicles including a total write off.
>Now the write off had an electric fan that was not standard, a grille and
>auxilliary lamps that weren't standard and I don't know what else, was
>anyone interested ... NO.
>
>The only time I ever had any difficulty was when I changed an engine when
>they at first insisted on an engineers report and then saw sence that it was
>no necessary for a straigtforward recon engine swap notified to the DVLA.
>
>Next you will say a set of Halfords Wiper blades invalidates insurance, any
>company that tried that on would be the ones who were sorry.
>
>Small print notwithstanding there are unenforcable terms in many contracts
>simply because they exceed what the law of contract allows.
>
>
>

There are 2 things which interest insurance companies - risk of claim
and associated pay out and valuation of vehicle in the event of a
payout.

If you fit non-performance enhancing accessories as has been mentioned,
and don't inform your insurance company, they will not make any
adjustment to their valuation in the event of theft or accident write
off. LPG conversions are another example which come into this category.
Similarly if any accident repair work is extended by the presence of
such an undeclared accessory they will not fund the extra cost. In my
case luckily I had declared the fitting of a roll cage which
substantially increased the work involved in replacing a front wing.

Performance enhancing modifications MUST be notified as they may well
invalidate your insurance and generally will incur an increased premium.
Anything which could conceivably increase risk should also be notified,
and regrettably some insurance companies consider an LPG conversion in
this category also. It is not the policy holders opinion that matters
but the insurers. It is true that many insurers do not understand the
nature of the Land Rover. They are pretty easily identified and easily
avoided.

Coming back to the OP , whilst it doesn't answer the original question
as to legality I would have thought that a quick phone call to your
insurers to explain the situation would be worth the peace of mind
knowing that if you did impale a pedestrian or cyclist on the front end
at least you would be insured. Who knows, the call centre operator might
know if it's legal or not (joke)
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
..gninnigeb eht erofeb ,dne eht daer ot gniyrt esnes elttil yrev sekam ti
,tsop pot t'nod esaelP


 
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:31:30 +0100, "Larry" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I don't look at them too closely at Disco's, you mean they are infected with
>the pervasive design disease of modern car bumpers all plastic and get
>mangled on the slightest impact :(


Not the case at all. The front bumper is steel (just look at the rust
on most of them!) with plastic end caps and centre dressing piece. It
unbolts from the chassis rails very easily making it strong, slightly
deformable for slight impacts and easy to change / replace.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70
 
so Steve Taylor was, like...
> Danny wrote:
>
>> Insurance companies are very interested in exactly those mods -
>> changing the wheels or adding other seemingly innocent items has
>> resulted in many claims not being met since the vehicle was modified
>> and this changed the assessment of the theft risk, for instance.

>
> How do these boy-racer folks get away with these spinning blades on
> their wheels ? How on earth are they legal.
>
> Steve


Haven't seen these around here, but it sounds like just the job to fit on
yer white 8-spokes when ramblers are expected. Do they do them in Landy
sizes?

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
Larry came up with the following;:
> I don't look at them too closely at Disco's, you mean they are infected
> with the pervasive design disease of modern car bumpers all plastic and
> get mangled on the slightest impact :(


Nope, not at all.

It hasn't had an 'impact'. If you'd care to read, you'd note my first post
that said I had been off-roading, a lot. But I also want to take it off to
clean up the rust spots on it, replace the side bits and lower front
valance, whatever it's called, but I only have a couple of hours a day spare
so might need it off the vehicle for a week or two as I'll probably need a
few tuits too. ;)

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
Byway acccess issues http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
They need support http://www.rnli.org.uk/Home.asp

 
> but ask
>yourself, do all vehicles have bumpers ? have you ever seen one on a bus ?


yeah . as it happens i have,

a guy sat three seats away from me had one.and kept banging into
people when it got to his stop........

andy

 
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:48:45 +0100, "Paul - xxx"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Larry came up with the following;:
>> I don't look at them too closely at Disco's, you mean they are infected
>> with the pervasive design disease of modern car bumpers all plastic and
>> get mangled on the slightest impact :(

>
>Nope, not at all.
>
>It hasn't had an 'impact'. If you'd care to read, you'd note my first post
>that said I had been off-roading, a lot. But I also want to take it off to
>clean up the rust spots on it, replace the side bits and lower front
>valance, whatever it's called, but I only have a couple of hours a day spare
>so might need it off the vehicle for a week or two as I'll probably need a
>few tuits too. ;)


You can do it in an afternoon I'd reckon. Unplug the headlamp washer
piping and remove them (you WILL break the stems!). There's a load of
little fastener things holding the valance on. Then two (or was it
four?) big bolts holding the bumper onto the dumb irons.

Quick rub down and spray / brush some hammerite on it and leave it to
dry. Bolt it all back on - valance and headlamp washers can wait if
you are short of time (or if you've broken them!).


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70
 
On or around Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:33:03 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Quick rub down and spray / brush some hammerite on it and leave it to
>dry. Bolt it all back on - valance and headlamp washers can wait if
>you are short of time (or if you've broken them!).


fortunately, they're cheap to replace. I was expecting to find that they
were about 30 quid, but they were about 5.78 or some such amount and that
was from a dealer.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
Tim Hobbs came up with the following;:
> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:48:45 +0100, "Paul - xxx"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Larry came up with the following;:
>>> I don't look at them too closely at Disco's, you mean they are infected
>>> with the pervasive design disease of modern car bumpers all plastic and
>>> get mangled on the slightest impact :(

>>
>> Nope, not at all.
>>
>> It hasn't had an 'impact'. If you'd care to read, you'd note my first
>> post that said I had been off-roading, a lot. But I also want to take
>> it off to clean up the rust spots on it, replace the side bits and lower
>> front valance, whatever it's called, but I only have a couple of hours a
>> day spare so might need it off the vehicle for a week or two as I'll
>> probably need a few tuits too. ;)

>
> You can do it in an afternoon I'd reckon.


'swot I figured, all being good ... it's just getting a tuit to do the
rubbing down and re-fettling that'll slow me down, and drying time for the
paintwork. And a lack of space, at present, to do any work, and the Trials
bikes need doing too, 'while I'm there' acc to swmbo ... ;).

> Unplug the headlamp washer
> piping and remove them (you WILL break the stems!).


LOL, oh for headlamp washers ... this is a basic 3 door disco, not even
electric windows or mirrors.

> There's a load of little fastener things holding the valance on.


Yeah. Used to be. Tie wraps are wonderful things to carry in your 'fuggit
I'm stuck now' box ... ;)

> Then two (or was it four?) big bolts holding the bumper onto the dumb
> irons.


I'm sure there's a joke there, but it's early and too warm ...

> Quick rub down and spray / brush some hammerite on it and leave it to
> dry.


'swot I did for the rear, but it took an age to dry so took a few days to
finish overall. I had no worries with the rear bumper being off, after all,
there's a sodding great towbar and plate to hit first .. ;)

> Bolt it all back on - valance and headlamp washers can wait if
> you are short of time (or if you've broken them!).


LOL, I get the idea you've done this a time or two .. ;)

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
Byway acccess issues http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
They need support http://www.rnli.org.uk/Home.asp

 
Which is logical enough, I have an agreed value policy. Some time when I
have made enough improvements I might see if I can up the value, however
since most of my mods are DIY camping equipment in the back, I have already
discovered that no-one will insure that unless you go the whole hog and
declare it to be a motor caravan. (mine would probably not qualify for
insurance as such)

I suppose it depends much upon the nature of what you claim for, for
instance if the thing caught fire because of faulty wiring I had installed,
I can see an insurance company objecting, or if it blew up because I have a
gas bottle in the back, again, they wouldn't want to pay out, but then I am
not insuring myself against such eventualities.

If it is stolen, or written off in an accident I would lose out, but then if
I paid a huge amount to insure everything the likelihood is I would lose out
too.

I do have experience of insurance companies haggling with each other, when I
had a burglary some years ago and was self employed at the time, so that
gave scope for two companies to argue what was and what was not business
related.

Now if something as trivial as attaching my numberplate to the grille and
not the bumper were to invalidate my insurance I might as well join the
bandits.

Anyway if an insurance company ever wants to argue with me, they will tire
out in the end because I can argue for England, most people would just give
up or chew there legs off :)


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, Larry
> <[email protected]> writes
> There are 2 things which interest insurance companies - risk of claim
> and associated pay out and valuation of vehicle in the event of a
> payout.
>
> If you fit non-performance enhancing accessories as has been mentioned,
> and don't inform your insurance company, they will not make any
> adjustment to their valuation in the event of theft or accident write
> off. LPG conversions are another example which come into this category.
> Similarly if any accident repair work is extended by the presence of
> such an undeclared accessory they will not fund the extra cost. In my
> case luckily I had declared the fitting of a roll cage which
> substantially increased the work involved in replacing a front wing.
>
> Performance enhancing modifications MUST be notified as they may well
> invalidate your insurance and generally will incur an increased premium.
> Anything which could conceivably increase risk should also be notified,
> and regrettably some insurance companies consider an LPG conversion in
> this category also. It is not the policy holders opinion that matters
> but the insurers. It is true that many insurers do not understand the
> nature of the Land Rover. They are pretty easily identified and easily
> avoided.
>
> Coming back to the OP , whilst it doesn't answer the original question
> as to legality I would have thought that a quick phone call to your
> insurers to explain the situation would be worth the peace of mind
> knowing that if you did impale a pedestrian or cyclist on the front end
> at least you would be insured. Who knows, the call centre operator might
> know if it's legal or not (joke)
> --
> hugh
> Reply to address is valid at the time of posting



 
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