Legality of no bumpers?

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P

Paul - xxx

Guest

Hi all,

Need to do some work to the front bumper, valance and other bits on my
Discovery. been a tad over-enthusiastic off-roading and some bits are bent,
snapped and de-ranged, so want to take all the front end off and re-arrange,
paint, fettle and maybe even change some of it so it's a little less
vulnerable.

How legal is it, or not, to drive around without a front bumper?

Yes, I know, I've seen many people do it and I do realise that it may be a
tad more dangerous in an accident, but does anyone know chapter and verse of
the actual legal implications, or can they point me to where I might find
out, please.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
Byway acccess issues http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
They need support http://www.rnli.org.uk/Home.asp

 
Well considering landies don't have a back bumper by design I can't see that
it makes any difference whatever.

A bumper is a bit of metal stuck in the front that doesn't really do much in
a big collision, you could make one out of paper mache for all the
difference it would make,

It is something to stand on at least to climb onto the bonnet, but ask
yourself, do all vehicles have bumpers ? have you ever seen one on a bus ?


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes




"Paul - xxx" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Hi all,
>
> Need to do some work to the front bumper, valance and other bits on my
> Discovery. been a tad over-enthusiastic off-roading and some bits are
bent,
> snapped and de-ranged, so want to take all the front end off and
re-arrange,
> paint, fettle and maybe even change some of it so it's a little less
> vulnerable.
>
> How legal is it, or not, to drive around without a front bumper?
>
> Yes, I know, I've seen many people do it and I do realise that it may be a
> tad more dangerous in an accident, but does anyone know chapter and verse
of
> the actual legal implications, or can they point me to where I might find
> out, please.
>
> --
> Paul ...
> (8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
> Byway acccess issues http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
> They need support http://www.rnli.org.uk/Home.asp
>


 
Hello, Larry!

1. A Discovery without a front bumper has lots of sharp edges....which ISTR
is an MOT failure, therefore, by default, is *not* legal (IMHO)
2. That's where the number plate lives ... and we all know that sticking it
in the window is *not* legal too....

--
Neil


 
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:05:53 +0000 (UTC), "Neffalump" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hello, Larry!
>
>1. A Discovery without a front bumper has lots of sharp edges....which ISTR
>is an MOT failure, therefore, by default, is *not* legal (IMHO)
>2. That's where the number plate lives ... and we all know that sticking it
>in the window is *not* legal too....


Just because a vehicle fails the MOT on a certain point does not mean
that certain point failure is illegal IYSWIM
Also, just because a vehicle passes an MOT, it does not mean there are
no illegalities on that vehicle.

--
ColonelTupperware,
spouting bollocks on Usenet since 1997
Usenet FAQ at
http://www.its.caltech.edu/its/services/internetapps/news/news2.shtml
UPCE FAQ at http://upce.org.uk/ UKRM FAQ at http://www.ukrm.net/faq/
 
Paul - xxx wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Need to do some work to the front bumper, valance and other bits on my
> Discovery. been a tad over-enthusiastic off-roading and some bits are
> bent, snapped and de-ranged, so want to take all the front end off and
> re-arrange, paint, fettle and maybe even change some of it so it's a
> little less vulnerable.
>
> How legal is it, or not, to drive around without a front bumper?
>
> Yes, I know, I've seen many people do it and I do realise that it may be
> a tad more dangerous in an accident, but does anyone know chapter and
> verse of the actual legal implications, or can they point me to where I
> might find out, please.
>
Why noy just mount a flat panel there, wood or metal, until your
business with the bumper is concluded? Then you make up your mind what
you want to.

I would just find some diamondplate , cut to suit, and decal backwards
(Try me).

Adam in NYC
 
Adam Vazquez Kb2Jpd came up with the following;:
> Paul - xxx wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Need to do some work to the front bumper, valance and other bits on my
>> Discovery. been a tad over-enthusiastic off-roading and some bits are
>> bent, snapped and de-ranged, so want to take all the front end off and
>> re-arrange, paint, fettle and maybe even change some of it so it's a
>> little less vulnerable.
>>
>> How legal is it, or not, to drive around without a front bumper?
>>
>> Yes, I know, I've seen many people do it and I do realise that it may be
>> a tad more dangerous in an accident, but does anyone know chapter and
>> verse of the actual legal implications, or can they point me to where I
>> might find out, please.
>>
> Why noy just mount a flat panel there, wood or metal, until your
> business with the bumper is concluded? Then you make up your mind what
> you want to.

Yup, that's what we intended to do. I guess what I want to do is way safer
than many winch bumpers and fairleads I've seen .. ;)

> I would just find some diamondplate , cut to suit, and decal backwards
> (Try me).

My bro's a welder so he'll sort me out with *something* I guess. ;)


--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
Byway acccess issues http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
They need support http://www.rnli.org.uk/Home.asp

 
> 1. A Discovery without a front bumper has lots of sharp edges....which
ISTR
> is an MOT failure,
>
Only an MOT failure if the sharp adges are created by corrosion or damaged
panels, sharp edges exposed by removing a bumper aren't a fail.

> 2. That's where the number plate lives ... and we all know that sticking
it
> in the window is *not* legal too....
>
It must be clearly displayed, if it is clearly displayed behind the window,
then it is legal. (You must have seen buses which have their numberplates
behind glass panels, or in the back window)


 
Paul - xxx wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> Need to do some work to the front bumper, valance and other bits on my
> Discovery. been a tad over-enthusiastic off-roading and some bits are
> bent, snapped and de-ranged, so want to take all the front end off and
> re-arrange, paint, fettle and maybe even change some of it so it's a
> little less vulnerable.
>
> How legal is it, or not, to drive around without a front bumper?
>
> Yes, I know, I've seen many people do it and I do realise that it may be
> a tad more dangerous in an accident, but does anyone know chapter and
> verse of the actual legal implications, or can they point me to where I
> might find out, please.

You don't need a bumper - but you must not have exposed sharp edges. You
may get away with covering any such edges with split rubber hose.

As others have mentioned don't forget to display the number plate in an
approved manner. Stick it on the grill?

Be very careful - unfortunately you can't trust the police even if you
are fully legal!

 
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:16:21 +0000 (UTC), SimonJ wrote:

> Only an MOT failure if the sharp adges are created by corrosion or
> damaged panels, sharp edges exposed by removing a bumper aren't a
> fail.

But may invalidate the type approval for the vehicle. Bit like a 7
seat Disco II *must* have air suspension to be legal.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
Paul - xxx wrote:

> How legal is it, or not, to drive around without a front bumper?

All the posts so far have been re-MOT status, but what about your
insurance policy as certain alterations can invalidate that. It may
well be worth reading the small print.

Lizzy
 
On or around Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:38:16 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:16:21 +0000 (UTC), SimonJ wrote:
>
>> Only an MOT failure if the sharp adges are created by corrosion or
>> damaged panels, sharp edges exposed by removing a bumper aren't a
>> fail.
>
>But may invalidate the type approval for the vehicle. Bit like a 7
>seat Disco II *must* have air suspension to be legal.

buggered if I see why, though. apart from 'cos it was designed like that.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
Steve Taylor came up with the following;:
> Paul - xxx wrote:
>
>> How legal is it, or not, to drive around without a front bumper?
>
> All the posts so far have been re-MOT status, but what about your
> insurance policy as certain alterations can invalidate that. It may
> well be worth reading the small print.

Fair point, and one which I hadn't considered. Thanks. ;)

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
Byway acccess issues http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
They need support http://www.rnli.org.uk/Home.asp
 
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:23:18 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:

>> But may invalidate the type approval for the vehicle.
>
> buggered if I see why, though. apart from 'cos it was designed like
> that.

If removal of the bumper does violate the type approval then the
chances are your insurance is null and void as well. Unless you tell
'em but I doubt many companies could handle or accept such information
anyway with or without the type approval being affected.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
My number plate lives on the radiator grille, held there with wire, and it
passed the last MOT that way.

I suppose if you taped up the sharp edges it would be legal enough,


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes




"Neffalump" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello, Larry!
>
> 1. A Discovery without a front bumper has lots of sharp edges....which
ISTR
> is an MOT failure, therefore, by default, is *not* legal (IMHO)
> 2. That's where the number plate lives ... and we all know that sticking
it
> in the window is *not* legal too....
>
> --
> Neil
>
>


 
How ridiculos, supposing you have an accident the result of which is to
remove your bumper, not going to invalidate insurance is it, How many cars
do you see driving around with sundry damage awaiting insurers approval for
the estimates etc ???

I think some people get over literal about insurance. If there is a fly on
the windscreen that is a modification isn't it ......


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes




"Steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Paul - xxx wrote:
>
> > How legal is it, or not, to drive around without a front bumper?
>
> All the posts so far have been re-MOT status, but what about your
> insurance policy as certain alterations can invalidate that. It may
> well be worth reading the small print.
>
> Lizzy


 
To return to insurance.

In essence the small print is there to make sure you do not make unsafe
modifications to the car, such as a bigger engine, or other technical mods.
I do not think they are really concerned about changing seats, go faster
stripes and the kitchen sink in the back.

No working series vehicle of any vintage is worth its salt if it is bog
standard, they are a utility vehicle and a load lugger, if the insurance
company does not understand that, then it is time to find another company.

I insure mine for peanuts, and have avoided making any claims so far. If it
were stolen or a total write off, they are not going to sift through the
bits to read the serial numbers on every component are they ?


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes





"Steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Paul - xxx wrote:
>
> > How legal is it, or not, to drive around without a front bumper?
>
> All the posts so far have been re-MOT status, but what about your
> insurance policy as certain alterations can invalidate that. It may
> well be worth reading the small print.
>
> Lizzy


 
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:11:36 +0100, Larry wrote:

> How ridiculos, supposing you have an accident the result of which is
> to remove your bumper, not going to invalidate insurance is it,

Not for the accident that removed the bumper but if you had another
whilst bumper was missing I wouldn't like to bet on it, especially if
said insurance company is faced with paying out on big personal injury
claim.

> How many cars do you see driving around with sundry damage awaiting
> insurers approval for the estimates etc ???

Dinged panels and cracked lights or plastic bumpers are not quite the
same as not having them at all...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
Larry wrote:
> How ridiculos, supposing you have an accident the result of which is to
> remove your bumper, not going to invalidate insurance is it, How many cars
> do you see driving around with sundry damage awaiting insurers approval for
> the estimates etc ???

I think if you were to have an accident without a "safety feature"
working, your insurers would be VERY interested. If, in consequence, a
pedestrian was injured, the pedestrian would make a very great deal out
of it too.

Steve
 
Larry wrote:
> To return to insurance.
>
> In essence the small print is there to make sure you do not make unsafe
> modifications to the car, such as a bigger engine, or other technical mods.
> I do not think they are really concerned about changing seats, go faster
> stripes and the kitchen sink in the back.
-snip-

Insurance companies are very interested in exactly those mods -
changing the wheels or adding other seemingly innocent items has
resulted in many claims not being met since the vehicle was modified
and this changed the assessment of the theft risk, for instance.

I changed the screen on my bike for an aftermarket screen (taller) and
was told that my insurance would be invalidated if they weren't informed.


--
Regards,
Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.dannyscoffee.com (UK advert for my mobile espresso service)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/European online ordering for Malabar
Gold blend)
swap Z for above characters in email address to reply

 
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