Landrover Freelander 2 Brake lights no fuse????

Hi,
My parents have a 2 year old Freelander 2 diesel (I'm not sure of the model as they are 200 miles away and I forgot to ask!!)
I'm trying to appreciate a technical fault with it from afar and could do with some advice!
They had a towbar professionally fitted by a landrover authorised fitter and all was well.
However recently they were made aware that their two main (outer) brake lights were not working, only the top LED brake light.
They discovered a bare worn through cable with their trailer electrics and also noticed that there was water in their light clusters.
No problem they thought, it'll be a fuse. So off they went to look through all three fuse boxes but no fuse was to be found.
So, as the car was under warrenty they booked it in at the landrover dealer and 6hrs later after sitting in the waiting room for the car to be looked at the 'engineer' (thats another story!!) at £100/hr announced that the freelander 2 does not have fuses for the brake lights and that he had to reset the auxiliary ECU using his diagnostic computer. It was questionable whether this was covered under warrenty or not but they did it anyway.
Apparently Landrover saw fit to not go down the conventional route that has worked for 50 years or so and has decided to not fit fuses on some 'critical' circuits and to use a ECU based current isolation device AND has decided to not warn the driver that the circuit is isolated!
I've come across other 'new' cars that also have this type of current limiting technology, but they auto reset if you cycle the ignition status.

Landrovers 'engineers' stance is that it was for the benefit of the customer who did not want to be mythered changing fuses and also confirmed that even their landrover assist (breakdown) drivers did not have the necessary facilities to reset this simple issue.

While I can appreciate if Landrover were just trying to extract money from their customers they could use a 'feature' like this to do so, I can not believe that they would actually do so!!!

My recommendation if this is true is to fit inline fuses at the lamp clusters or the trips to the dealer will just get silly!!

I'd appreciate whether anyone else can confirm / deny this.
I also failed to find any wiring diagrams etc (rave only covers to the pre facelift model which does not have this 'feature') so can not cross check myself.

With thanks

Jon

don't have the facts about the design, but if this is true, it sounds wholly wrong.

For customers that couldn't be bothered with changing fuses, they have to go a main dealer and book an appointment to have the ECU reset ? surely not. if they can go to the dealers to have the ecu reset, they can go to the dealers to have the fuse replaced surely.

it is also wrong in so far as what happens if you are a long way from home and get stopped by the police ? will land rover assist come and recover you to a main dealer ?

I would be in touch with land rover customer service to find out if this is true if I was you.

footnote:

went here:

http://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/...rvlet/peachviewfile?t=1260038160926/index.htm

which is the website for land rover manuals, the above page is for freelander 2 fuses, and it shows 3 fuseboxes. All seems a little suspect for me, I would get your parent to check their owners manual, then check to see if the dfuse boxes are there. If they are, well you have a pretty good case for going back to the dealers and getting their money back.

It looks like vehicle manufacturers are trying to erradicate DIY repairs and force us to use the dealerships.
I suppose when you order a new FL2 now, you should be able to specify that you want the fuses fitted, and maybe you 'll get some special vehicle badges aswell because of it.

Jon1977 said:

My recommendation if this is true is to fit inline fuses at the lamp clusters or the trips to the dealer will just get silly!!

Click to expand...

The problem with this - is that an ECU is likely to trip in micro-seconds - a damn sight quicker than a fuse, so you will still have an ECU reset to do, and fuses that are unlikely to ever blow .

Hi,
thanks for the reply, to confirm that the only fuse that references brake lights is Fuse 28 in the passenger compartment.
This fuse ONLY protects the high level brake light which is apparently on a seperate circuit.
They have also had the local automotive electician from the trailer company check ALL other fuses prior to landrover looking at it and all were ok but the brake lights did not work, the bulbs were ok, after landrover reportidly reset the system, all was ok!!
You'll also notice that there is no fuse reference for the indicators, side lights or Rear fogs (which is worrying!)
Reverse lights are mentioned but that is about it.

This really smells fishy to me!!!

I'd appreciate any other owners of Freelander 2's to enquire with their dealers, or if you feel brave, withdraw the F28 and see if it is only the top level and not the lower brake lights, although this comes with no guarantee of working etc!!! ;-)

The 'engineer' was apparently very convincing in his statement of "this is for the benefit of customers" which must mean the very small minority of people who appreciate being towed home after a fine after being pickup up by the police (or even worse after an RTA) for landrover to 'reset the system'.

I really hope that this is just their local dealer 'not having a clue', and I will shortly be able to get my hands on the car to investigate myself as a competant chartered electrical engineer, but I'm worried that this is true and others may not be aware of this (in my view) safety issue.

Can anyone shed light onto this issue?

with thanks
Jon.

Did they do a back to factory spec reset?

They use field effect transistors to control the lights. Is this confusing the dealer when they refer to resetting?

Does anyone know of an after market plug in device for the FL2? Owners will need one. Everytime I read about the FL2 I can't help thinking how complex the car is. Even with electronics as my background, I still think fet's are over the top. Auto resetting fuses I could accept.

what was the timescale between the towbar fitted and the lights not working, it could be a software issue.

Hi,
they got the towbar fitted about 1 week after getting the car, and it's approx 2 years old now and has been fine upto now.

I'm interested in your 'software issue' statement.

The landrover 'engineer' was trying to convince my parents that the cars ECU would 'know' that they had not used the official landrover freelander 2 trailer module (the landrover module is a £500 upgrade, plus the trailer towbar!)
Although he could still not say why it did not auto reset.
I would be intrieged as to landrovers view on this, but after trying to deal with another motor manufacture about my 'view' on their 'faulty from design' issues and failed I'm sure i'd be wasting my time.

I can appreciate that with fairly simple electrolics and software it is possible to determin exactly what is on the end of the wire and even how long the wire is using Time Domain Reflectology (TDR), but.... this is a car for whatsits sake!

As I'm starting to assume, this is just a way of making sure that you have to visit the main dealer for any upgrade or servicing! Maybe its just the way of the world!!

Jon

This thread agrees with my comment above about using fets on the FL2: Freel2.com - View topic - Hi Level Brakelight not working

Is the device we're talking about being reset the central junction box, simular to what they have on the Disco3?

Hi,
I've also done some digging and it does appear that the CAN bus is used for signals (which I can appreciate as it assists with diagnistics and reduces wiring) and FET's are used (which are required as ECU's are used and they are cheaper, quieter and more reliable than relays).
What I still cannot fathom is why the current limiting and trip are contained within the ECU and not via fuses and why the driver is not warned that this 'protection' has activated!

The proper towbar kit for the freelander 2 is an interface module between the CAN bus and the trailer electrics and sits in the rear fuse box with a single fuse protecting it.
I've contacted the trailer towbar fitter and advised them that they may be forced into using the proper interface box when fitting towbars on the freelander 2.

Has anyone else had a 'none dealer' installation of a towbar on a facelift freelander 2?

Cheers
Jon

i purchased and fitted a towbar / wiring set complete from bearmachs, it all came with landrover part nos, and boxed, even had lr instructions inside, the car went back to stealers to have the towbar electronically switched on, ie software update, they failed to upload it the first visit, because it was all genuine lr they then sorted it under warranty.

My dealer has told me that there are no conventional fuses, but there are electronic ones in the ecu that will reset when you restart the ignition. If there is no fault i.e. a short circuit, the lights will work as normal when you restart the car, but if there is a fault then the ecu will break the circuit again.