L series idle issues

Update
So the idle issues are still persistent.
Had a the car put on a diag and no fault codes were apparent. But there was something quite odd. The ECU was saying the engine temp was ~33. Something not quite right there.
So I had as brain wave. If the ECU believes the engine temp is seriously low surely it's automatic response is to increase fuel and richen the mixture to increase temp?
So I've changed the coolant temp sensor (not the sender) to no avail next to order is intake manifold temp sensor. Can't think of any others unless someone can correct me.
Do you think I'm thinking along the right lines???

Oh and to add to all that I blew a water hose today so has been temp repaired whilst I wait for the replacement.

I don't hate my FL honestly......

Bluey89 said:

Update
So the idle issues are still persistent.
Had a the car put on a diag and no fault codes were apparent. But there was something quite odd. The ECU was saying the engine temp was ~33. Something not quite right there.
So I had as brain wave. If the ECU believes the engine temp is seriously low surely it's automatic response is to increase fuel and richen the mixture to increase temp?
So I've changed the coolant temp sensor (not the sender) to no avail next to order is intake manifold temp sensor. Can't think of any others unless someone can correct me.
Do you think I'm thinking along the right lines???

Oh and to add to all that I blew a water hose today so has been temp repaired whilst I wait for the replacement.

I don't hate my FL honestly......

Click to expand...

Hi Bluey, I thought you said the issue was gone when you played with the pump wiring ? - how long did it run ok for ?
Also, what diagnostics did the place use ? - are you sure he was looking at Coolant temp and not fuel temp ?
I mentioned IAT before - it is about the only sensor that will not illuminate the money light on the L series. - however I dont think it would cause too much of an issue. It is one of the things that the diagnostic chappy should have checked for plausibility - too many just look for codes and thats it - very very bad practice - they need to look at all the major sensors on the vehicle for plausible readings. Many can be working but out of spec, they have not failed so will not trigger the fail action of the ecu.
He also should have checked TPS readings to see if they were steady, also the HP pump servo drive signal(s), the Needle lift sensor. - as well as all the other temp related items / air fuel / coolant.
When looking at a problem that is causing fluctuation, you are also looking for signals that are also fluctuating or are not plausible.
The HPFP fuel pump control and feedback circuit would be well worth checking on the diagnostics for fluctuation.
Also - check for visual clues in that area too - For example - has a previous owner fitted the EVRY mod and then removed it ... this is a little mod to the pump quantity servo feedback circuit..

I would be extremely surprised if some issue or signal fluctuation could not be seen on live data from the diags if the idle speed is fluctuating. This is what diagnostics are for. As said, too too many use them as 'code readers' which are very very limited in their use purely as a code reader - especially on older vehicles / control units / and can only often give a clue. However, even the good old L series has all the live data you need for 99% of cases.

Ask for your money back

The FL ran ok for less than a day. Following day started playing up.
I'm under the impression that the erratic idle and lack of willingness to drop revs is a separate issue the the CEL illumination/lost power on v light throttle.
Then again probably wrong as I have a lot to learn about LR electrics.
He used a small hand held diag, red in colour which was rectangular. I know that is probably of no use but it's the best that I have. I've been quoted £50 the have a diag by a LR specialist. .....Penwith 4×4 In penzance whom I have heard good things, but £50 Just sounded a bit steep. Saying that if he finds the fault £50 worth spending.

You mentioned the EVRY now
What the heck is that?

The only thing I've ever noticed out of place in the engine bay is a small gauge blue wire that runs from battery +ve terminal to and then along the fire wall, then goes through the fire wall drivers side. No idea what it's for and definitely does NOT look OEM

check the wiring for the TPS - most likely chafed through or damaged. The sensors themselves are nearly as tough as the engine, so is exceptionally rare for them to fail in this manner.

Hello Bluey,
It was probably an icarsoft unit
http://www.icarsoft.com/web/icarsof...ntools/2012/201212/20121229123158a6ef0_1.html
they are only about 85 quid (I think ?)
Many people here have them, but I dont know how good they are on the L series. I believe you can look at live data - you would have to email them and ask for the L series. I seem to remember emailing them and they said 'they do not recommend the unit for an L series' - if it WAS useful - really useful -on the L series then it is not much more than a single diagnostic session. unfortunately because I think the 930 is no good on the L series, the next ones up in price are about 255 quid, the Lynx and the Hawkeye, I have the Lynx so am biased - but the lynx is the better unit from the specs. It also runs on a laptop so you have full screen data logging and multiple live data streams all at one time. There may well be some near you with a Hawkeye ?
Maybe put up a post to ask ? - people are usually happy to share for beer money etc - I would diag it for you but you would need to drive to Portugal....

For the EVRY mod check out this link -
Some good tuning info.

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/l-series-mods.284526/

I would add though that some of the data there is not up to date, for example the turbo info is incorrect. Only the very early L series freelanders had the earlier SDi turbo, all the later ones 1998 on had the higher spec turbo. (you can tell from the number stamped on the turbo - the later ones are 100490

If you decide to do the evry mod (and it is very good !) - you could pay someone a fortune for the same thing in a box - no names etc .... or make one for a few pence
I would look at fitting a fixed resistor of 2k across pins 7 and 8 as well as the 2K variable on 6 and 7 (it is more elegant and it balances the circuit properly)
However, obviously do nothing until you are fully sorted out.

Have a look around the pump connector wiring to see if there is any evidence of this being added in the past (probably not but worth checking)

Joe

DastardlyDan said:

check the wiring for the TPS - most likely chafed through or damaged. The sensors themselves are nearly as tough as the engine, so is exceptionally rare for them to fail in this manner.

Click to expand...

Just the man @DastardlyDan ! - Hey Dan - question for you ?
Do you have the pump timing details for the VP37 FL model if the shaft has not been locked ? (I have a s/h one but it was removed without the lock bolt in place)
Also, did you ever complete the 11mm conversion and- did you ever fit it and test it ?
I presume the timing on that would be the same as whatever the camplate lift was at crank tdc on the FL ??
Cheers
Joe

Joe_H said:

Hello Bluey,
It was probably an icarsoft unit
http://www.icarsoft.com/web/icarsof...ntools/2012/201212/20121229123158a6ef0_1.html
they are only about 85 quid (I think ?)
Many people here have them, but I dont know how good they are on the L series. I believe you can look at live data - you would have to email them and ask for the L series. I seem to remember emailing them and they said 'they do not recommend the unit for an L series' - if it WAS useful - really useful -on the L series then it is not much more than a single diagnostic session. unfortunately because I think the 930 is no good on the L series, the next ones up in price are about 255 quid, the Lynx and the Hawkeye, I have the Lynx so am biased - but the lynx is the better unit from the specs. It also runs on a laptop so you have full screen data logging and multiple live data streams all at one time. There may well be some near you with a Hawkeye ?
Maybe put up a post to ask ? - people are usually happy to share for beer money etc - I would diag it for you but you would need to drive to Portugal....

For the EVRY mod check out this link -
Some good tuning info.

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/l-series-mods.284526/

I would add though that some of the data there is not up to date, for example the turbo info is incorrect. Only the very early L series freelanders had the earlier SDi turbo, all the later ones 1998 on had the higher spec turbo. (you can tell from the number stamped on the turbo - the later ones are 100490

If you decide to do the evry mod (and it is very good !) - you could pay someone a fortune for the same thing in a box - no names etc .... or make one for a few pence
I would look at fitting a fixed resistor of 2k across pins 7 and 8 as well as the 2K variable on 6 and 7 (it is more elegant and it balances the circuit properly)
However, obviously do nothing until you are fully sorted out.

Have a look around the pump connector wiring to see if there is any evidence of this being added in the past (probably not but worth checking)

Joe

Click to expand...

That is so.a awesome info. Once the FL is running smoothly I'll try the EVRY mod. Even if it's just to see what it's like them remove it.
I'll have to do it without the Mrs knowing. She loves the FL and my life wouldn't bbw worth living if she caught me doing more like that hahaha

Sorry for the attrocious spelling. Bloody phone, failing that I'm Welsh so not the most literate haha

Slightly off subject. ...
I'm also looking at returning her back to 4wd as the propshaft, VCU and bearings were all missing when I bought her. The IRD I fitted to replace the knackered unit when I bought her was also blanked.
I know I can get all the parts easily but I am curious, how temperamental are the VCU's in relation the difference in front/year tyre wear? Obviously don't want to knacker another IRD. I'm not worried atm as I've just fitted 4 New Hankook Dynapro A/T M's but I am curious.

Bluey89 said:

Slightly off subject. ...
I'm also looking at returning her back to 4wd as the propshaft, VCU and bearings were all missing when I bought her. The IRD I fitted to replace the knackered unit when I bought her was also blanked.
I know I can get all the parts easily but I am curious, how temperamental are the VCU's in relation the difference in front/year tyre wear? Obviously don't want to knacker another IRD. I'm not worried atm as I've just fitted 4 New Hankook Dynapro A/T M's but I am curious.

Click to expand...

Hi Bluey, The recommended (highly recommended) way is to always fit the larger tyres to the back !.
The VCUs are robust and reliable in general. IMHO - Most often the big problems are caused by tyre issues - the front / rear sizing, and also, for example, running with low pressure in a tyre for a considerable time. This can play havoc.
If you DO get a new ECU, get it from Bell engineering complete with bearings.
The IRD you got with the blanking plate will almost certainly be unsuitable for ever going back to 4WD. You would be looking for a recon unit. There is a company called 'gentlemen of salvage' - ask for James (tell them Joe in Portugal set ya lol ) .. he usually has some really good s/h IRD's in stock at good prices. I am unsure how many he has left now though.
You will also need a complete prop-shaft and nut / bolts.
Also consider that you may possibly have issues with the Diff. you usually cannot tell until you put load on it. It all depends on how much damage was caused when the IRD failed,
If the units are all working well when fitted , and you look after the tyres and pressure and the lube fluids then you should have absolutely no issues at all.
It is really easy to keep an eye on your VCU by checking for any dragging while reversing on full lock. There is also the so called OWUT (one wheel up test) -many swear by that but I would rather do the reverse test and trust its outcome more. It is a test whilst the shafts are actually rotating - not static.
Which ever you decide to do, no worries. Best thing is to treat it as a replacement item at around 70K miles... make a mental note when reversing (it comes automatically after a while) and then forget about it.
The OWUT is in a hugely long thread in the stickies on the first page here - About time that it was made into a single page lol

There is really good and useful info here.
http://www.bellengineering.co.uk/5.html
I believe they are the most highly respected freelander VCU re-conditioners in the world.
Many here may disagree about Bell's warning about the total irrelevancy of the OWUT, andof course, that is totally their prerogative. However, personally am 100% happy with the information there from Bell and also the credibility of the writer who knows more about VCU's than you can shake a stick at. . Bell use a static test and there is a video on you tube somewhere, but that is NOT for testing a used VCU, it is for testing their reconditioned units immediately after a rebuild and in a situation where they know exactly the state of the vcu plates, the fluid properties and state, and also the air space and state of the internal bearings. Take your car to Bell and they will test it by the reverse test. That is all you ever need to do as far as I am concerned. 100%. - No messing with jacks and levers and weights.
Joe

Sorry half got the original info slightly off. The recon IRD fitted had the prop shaft pinion gear in place but my father in law removed it and fitted a blanking plate for me whilst I was in work.
Surely I could just re fit the pinion gear, bolt on a prop shaft and VCU etc and should be good to go. Or is that just wishfull thinking.

Bluey89 said:

Sorry half got the original info slightly off. The recon IRD fitted had the prop shaft pinion gear in place but my father in law removed it and fitted a blanking plate for me whilst I was in work.
Surely I could just re fit the pinion gear, bolt on a prop shaft and VCU etc and should be good to go. Or is that just wishfull thinking.

Click to expand...

In that case yes, absolutely (I presume it was in good condition prior to removing the pinion ?

Joe_H said:

In that case yes, absolutely (I presume it was in good condition prior to removing the pinion ?

Click to expand...

I believe the previous owners had a VCU issue as they blew the IRD up (after fixing many other issues) so sold it cheap to get rid. I Paid £150 for the FL, towed it home and replaced the IRD myself with a recon unit. I'm assuming the prop shaft and VCU were removed when the previous owners blew up the IRD although I'm not sure

The IRD was in decent condition and all fluids were changed during fitment. That was over 10k miles ago now and having no issues. Although that might be down to it only being 2wd haha