In message <
[email protected]>, Rich Clafton
<
[email protected]> writes
>> >
>> >Is it me, or are we no longer living in a democracy.
>>
>> We stopped living in a democracy a long time ago. About the same time
>> we signed up to the common market, I think.
>>
>
>We don't live in a democracy cos no one can be bothered to vote unless its
>for big brother
>
>The EU is a smokescreen - if you want really powerful organisations to blame
>try the WTO and the IMF which have far mor effects on our lives and I don't
>remember electing their members. While we argue about europe the wto attacks
>legislation consumer safety legislation,workers rights, environmental
>measures and wants the ability to sue governments for lost profits caused by
>'restrictive' (their definition) legislation (including forcing us to import
>and sell GM food without any form of labelling on it so that stops us
>choosing not to use it
>
>In a democracy our right to freedom has always been limited by the fact of
>restrictions based on not harming others (thats whhy its illegal to kill
>someone!) so we have to judge if the use of unsuitable vehicles in london is
>a problem (that could well apply to sports cars and big engined vehicles
>too), then that freedom may need to be reduced for the common good.
>
>Note I am not backing either side on this but we must see the differences in
>uses - if you live in a rural area then the use of a 4x4 may well be
>desirable and nessesary, in a large city maybe not - Kens comments seem to
>be aimed quite squarely at London use of 4x4's . Maybe the conjestion charge
>should be higher for these types of vehicles. Are we willing to pay the
>price to run our 4x4s ? As most eat more fuel and don't have lower roa tax
>the answer is probabily yes.
>
>Rich
>
>
On what basis should we pay more for 4 wheel drive?
Engine size? OK so that applies to several cars - Rolls Royce, Bentley,
some Mercs, Jags etc etc What about small 4x4s - Suzukis, Series LR.
Defender diesels are only 2.5 litres compared to some diesel cars.
Footprint - no bigger than many cars.
Emissions - company car tax system is now based on emission so the
bigger, dirtier the engine the higher the tax
Fuel consumption - the more fuel you use the more fuel tax and vat you
pay, and that is a very high proportion of the actual fuel charge.
Risk to pedestrians? The biggest danger to them arises from the standard
bumper height introduced by the motor manufacturers in the 1950s long
before safety figured in their thinking and unfortunately the height
they chose is about he worst possible. A 4x4 would naturally have a
higher bumper height which would be less damaging if not artificially
lowered to comply with this standard.
Height - as suggested in the Guardian this week? Well, Ken should visit
the M6 Toll booths and see that a Landrover is classified as a car
whereas an MPV, being higher is classed as a van.
4 wheel drive? That is an option on Transit vans ( and others), Renault
Espace etc, and, oh yes, not forgetting the Lada. And what if you have
2/4 wheel drive like a series LR, Jeep Cherokee/Ford Ranger etc? Yes you
can bring it in to London provided you keep it in 2 wheel drive?
This move is just a distraction to draw attention away from his other
transport problems - not that it worries me - I wouldn't want to go near
the dirty stinking place let alone drive in it.
--
hugh
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