Jap 4x4s Vs Defenders

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this thread is going nowhere,
My comment is aimed at those who live in the UK - I'm sick to death of the way we have a proportion of the population who make it there goal in life to slag off anything that is built,designed or devloped in the UK. Yes, LR's could be better built, they could do with relying on less maintenance, BUT, and it is a big BUT, they are built and designed ( at the moment) here in the UK and so provide many many jobs in engineering and componant supply companies across the Uk. So next time you slag off another British made product just remember that these are the people who finance all the crappy little media and service sector jobs from the money made by exporting world class products.
And as for the farmers out there with their "buy british beef" stickers in the back of their L200, Why? you didn't. cos if you did we'd still build tractors in this country.
rant over.
 
trax99 said:
this thread is going nowhere,
My comment is aimed at those who live in the UK - I'm sick to death of the way we have a proportion of the population who make it there goal in life to slag off anything that is built,designed or devloped in the UK. Yes, LR's could be better built, they could do with relying on less maintenance, BUT, and it is a big BUT, they are built and designed ( at the moment) here in the UK and so provide many many jobs in engineering and componant supply companies across the Uk. So next time you slag off another British made product just remember that these are the people who finance all the crappy little media and service sector jobs from the money made by exporting world class products.
And as for the farmers out there with their "buy british beef" stickers in the back of their L200, Why? you didn't. cos if you did we'd still build tractors in this country.
rant over.
Click to expand...

You make an extremely good point. Was talking to my father about this the other day, it sickens me how the Brits constantly slag of British stuff. But as a slightly rough observation foreigners seem to love British made things.

I love British motors because they have character, and the Land rover not only has character but is one hell of fine piece of machinery no matter what.

The British Beef sticker on a L200 sums it all up doesn't it!
 
trax99 said:
this thread is going nowhere,
My comment is aimed at those who live in the UK - I'm sick to death of the way we have a proportion of the population who make it there goal in life to slag off anything that is built,designed or devloped in the UK. Yes, LR's could be better built, they could do with relying on less maintenance, BUT, and it is a big BUT, they are built and designed ( at the moment) here in the UK and so provide many many jobs in engineering and componant supply companies across the Uk. So next time you slag off another British made product just remember that these are the people who finance all the crappy little media and service sector jobs from the money made by exporting world class products.
And as for the farmers out there with their "buy british beef" stickers in the back of their L200, Why? you didn't. cos if you did we'd still build tractors in this country.
rant over.
Click to expand...
the stuff we build isnt world class. Its lower class.
Thats why we dont make it any more. No one wants it cos they can get better else where.Patriotism has no place is capitalist business.
 
goonarmy said:
the stuff we build isnt world class. Its lower class.
Thats why we dont make it any more. No one wants it cos they can get better else where.Patriotism has no place is capitalist business.
Click to expand...

I take it that you dont work within the British manufacturing system, i do, yes there is crap produced here, but the same can be said for every country ( dont think everything made in Japan is brilliant, it aint) but here in this country we make world leading products, usually in companies that have had the cash/forsight to invest heavily, ok, that hasn't always been the British car industry, but as this thread is about LR vs japanese lets delve in;
the world leading pick up is the Hi lux, now the old hilux was bomb proof, the current one is a shadow of that previous vehicle with major failures coming in after minimal milages ( I know of one where the whole thing was shagged after 150000 miles).
if you want to see what "works" just check out what the average Welsh sheep farmer is using cos they is careful with their brass, even now 75% of the vehicles on market day round here are defender ( lots of Tdci as well), old discos and even a few well worn series. In fact if you want to be invisible while laning get a green 90 truck cab with an Ifor Williams box on the back.
My main point though, if we dont buy British where the hell do you think the cash is going to come from to pay for the mess were in now?

one more thing - British built cars are crap? - Tell that to Toyota,Honda and Nissan.
Nissan bring Japanese factory managers/workers to Sunderland to learn about Quality/efficiency these days.

When the Japs start to build 4x4 in the UK that is when LR will be screwed.
 
goonarmy said:
the stuff we build isnt world class. Its lower class.
Thats why we dont make it any more. No one wants it cos they can get better else where.Patriotism has no place is capitalist business.
Click to expand...
Maybe true of some things, but not generally.

Our wages are higher, so for the same quality, it costs more to make things here than in China, Romania, India....etc.:blabla:

Buy a Chinese machine tool and tell us how good it is. Then buy the British one and tell us how much better it is!

Lots of the UK motor sport companies get their best bits made in this country, cos the monkeys aboard can't get it right, especially for structural composite materials (i.e. all those carbon fibre bits)
 
Tobi said:
Maybe true of some things, but not generally.

Our wages are higher, so for the same quality, it costs more to make things here than in China, Romania, India....etc.:blabla:

Buy a Chinese machine tool and tell us how good it is. Then buy the British one and tell us how much better it is!

Lots of the UK motor sport companies get their best bits made in this country, cos the monkeys aboard can't get it right, especially for structural composite materials (i.e. all those carbon fibre bits)
Click to expand...
so all our stuff is good and in massive demand? Really?
 
trax99 said:
this thread is going nowhere,
My comment is aimed at those who live in the UK - I'm sick to death of the way we have a proportion of the population who make it there goal in life to slag off anything that is built,designed or devloped in the UK. Yes, LR's could be better built, they could do with relying on less maintenance, BUT, and it is a big BUT, they are built and designed ( at the moment) here in the UK and so provide many many jobs in engineering and componant supply companies across the Uk. So next time you slag off another British made product just remember that these are the people who finance all the crappy little media and service sector jobs from the money made by exporting world class products.
And as for the farmers out there with their "buy british beef" stickers in the back of their L200, Why? you didn't. cos if you did we'd still build tractors in this country.
rant over.
Click to expand...
well put mate
 
trax99 said:
this thread is going nowhere,
My comment is aimed at those who live in the UK - I'm sick to death of the way we have a proportion of the population who make it there goal in life to slag off anything that is built,designed or devloped in the UK. Yes, LR's could be better built, they could do with relying on less maintenance, BUT, and it is a big BUT, they are built and designed ( at the moment) here in the UK and so provide many many jobs in engineering and componant supply companies across the Uk. So next time you slag off another British made product just remember that these are the people who finance all the crappy little media and service sector jobs from the money made by exporting world class products.
And as for the farmers out there with their "buy british beef" stickers in the back of their L200, Why? you didn't. cos if you did we'd still build tractors in this country.
rant over.
Click to expand...


so i should put up with second rate products, riddled with faults and a dealer network that isn't worth a ****, just so i can feel good about being british. get real m8, patriotism means **** all these days.

and what does "buy british beef" in the back of a L200 have to do with anything. how do you know they don't buy british beef?
 
gegs88 said:
so i should put up with second rate products, riddled with faults and a dealer network that isn't worth a ****, just so i can feel good about being british. get real m8, patriotism means **** all these days.

and what does "buy british beef" in the back of a L200 have to do with anything. how do you know they don't buy british beef?
Click to expand...

Its not about the beef. Clearly you miss the point of the statement. I think its a brilliant point.

Ive worked alot in the LR, and Jaguar, factories. Ive fitted machinery on the line of every model of LR for the last 16 years. Ive also worked at Nissan in Sunderland and a couple of other Jap factories. Ive seen the changes implemented by various owners in that time too, bringing new ideas and standards. I even remember BMW being shocked that there wasnt a proper 'Quality control' dept, so they sorted that. I feel LR have certainly come a long way as far as quality of production is concerned, to a point now where they are at least, at the forefront of the main manufacturers as far as design and production etc is concerned. And other areas too if Im honest.

Ive driven what feels like most 'domestic' cars and none of them give me the feeling I get when I drive my Disco. Sure, Ive had a teething problem here and there, but nothing I couldnt fix myself or with help from a friend. I even rescued my Dad, stranded with his 6.5m caravan - his L200 had exploded going up a hill in Yorkshire. He stopped swearing by his 'Buy Jap' nonsense after that. He replaced it with a Honda Civic though, he wont learn.
 
gegs88 said:
what does "buy british beef" in the back of a L200 have to do with anything. how do you know they don't buy british beef?
Click to expand...

my point was, that there is always someone somewhere appealing to a gut level patriotism while not following through with the logic of their own arguement ( wow that was well thought out after enjoying several of Mr Tim Taylors finest).
I'm not, by any means, having a go at the farming community on their own, just that in British society we have a deep seated hostility towards anything produced domestically. I dont believe in buying British just because, but as can be seen from several of the above posts on a, lets be honest we should all be a bit biased, forum thats dedicated to a classic British companies products, we as a nation have got it so wrong,when you walk around Paris or any German city the majority of cars you see are domestic, even the Yanks buy their own vehicles ( god only knows why) yet we don't even have a domestic volume car maker any more - mind you having driven a 200 series Rover I'm not suprised ( 75 was good though).
right i'm stopping now I've starting dribbling on like the Daily Mail.
 
trax99 said:
And as for the farmers out there with their "buy british beef" stickers in the back of their L200, Why? you didn't. cos if you did we'd still build tractors in this country.
Click to expand...

The argument can go the other way too- if we made a quality product that was affordable and reliable, then the farmer wouldn't have to buy the L200..

Most farmers are hard up enough as it is so can only afford what works. The old mantra of 'Buy British-buy twice' came about for a reason.

So if British products are so good, then why do we not have a large manufacturing base now then? When we led the world, and we truly did, we rested too much on our laurels. 'Our customers will buy this because that is what we sell'. Outdated and it fell apart... The ****ty factories of the Leyland era never helped anyone and then the Japanese etc came along with products that were modern, better kitted out and didn't fall apart within days. And still our industry laughed at them... yes, their early cars/bikes rusted because their steel was from recycled ships, but once that was sorted rust was nowhere near the problem it was with Brit stuff. Compare a 90's Honda with a same age Ford. Yes, Landies were great, bloody great, but the Japanese competition came along and replaced us in the world markets for a very good reason. if you read the reviews of series Landies you will always read how old fashioned they were at the time. Contrary to what us enthusiasts think, most customers wanted more comfort and performance. Very few would use the Landy to it's full potential so things like anti rusting and proper wind up windows and heaters count. Not to mention interior dryness.. :eek:

Before I bought my last Paj, I looked at lots of Discoveries and every one I looked at had either major rear end rust or bubbles around the screens, door tops etc. None on the Pajeros apart from one very abused example obviously used for boat towing duties. I love Landies and old Triumphs to bits but I'm not blinkered. :rolleyes:


But as we are enthusiasts, we see these flaws as character, and living with a Land Rover is no worse than living with a mad dog and having to wipe its jowls before going walkies... :D
 
when i was a kid, late sixties/early seventies all the local farmers had landrovers.... then it got something silly like a 6 month waiting list for a new one.... toyota hilux and daihatsu whatevers were in stock at the dealers....once theyed got a jap pickup very few have gone back to landrovers.
 
Perhaps if we didn't mind a bit of hard graft, we'd have been making more and better quality. Instead we striked and moaned and worked to rule.

Now quality is improving, but we still cost more than a workforce in, for example, India.

We could't compete on the economies of scale.
 
I love both types, for different reasons. The land rover has character, easily maintained and cheap available parts. It is the only 4x4 you can turn up to a wedding in, dented to hell and patchy paintwork - no-one cares, it's a landy. That is the land rovers' strength.

The jap stuff is a different kettle of fish. The parts hardly ever fail - but when they do, it will hurt you wallet badly, with part ten times the cost of a land rover part. But they are more comfortable and they do have a far better reliability - more to do with the fact that jap trucks work on power:weight - bigger engines, usually commercial based.

I can see why someone would do 100k in a landcruiser with no problems - I would expect it to do that - not even run in! Those trucks regularly clock up 600k.

A dealer with a cruiser? I know a few myself that do just the same - it isn't uncommon! They want to be repairing yours, not their own. Which is the reason they all give for doing so.

I have seen a novice in a paj actually impress a landy nut with a heavily modded 90, for it pacing him every step of the way - the paj was standard. He even reluctantly admitted that he was impressed as he thought they were ****e.

In a survival situation, I would choose to go in a Jap. Not for any other reason, than I would rather not be repairing anything in a desert in stupid heat - that would be the only reason.

It doesn't make the Land Rover a lesser vehicle - you are just using your head, and taking the vehicle with the best strengths for the job - in the case of the Jap - reliability and engine life. If i wanted to cruise around and have fun, on a budget near civilisation, I would choose the Land rover - far more fun and character, and cheap to maintain.

But if my life depended on it in a survival situation, I would take a patrol - even my old 570,000 mile one!
 
Jap 4x4s are like paper cups, work fine at first but are DISPOSABLE.

I bought a brand new Pajero SWB had it a year and sold it. I tried to use it how I wanted off road but it kept breaking.

I now have a 12 year old Defender for just over a year, this vehicle never stops amazing me. Things I have done in this I would never even tried in the Pajero.

I also owned a SJ413, had that for 3 or 4 years, great off road vehicle, could not get it stuck BUT it fell apart and rusted to pieces. I sold it for parts.

Speaking of parts. I import Land Rover parts all the way from Great Britain to nassau Bahamas Via FedEx!!! and am happy to pay the price because it is so much cheaper than buying the Jap or Korean parts from the local dealers.

Example:
My wife was driving a Hyundai Terrecan 4x4 TBi, 2006. I bought it new from the dealer in Nassau. The injector pump broke. Dealer says 3 moths to get a new one and it will cost $7K US or 4288.76GBP !!!!!! WTF

How much does a 300tdi injector pump cost?

I can get a new ****ing 300tdi engine for that money.......:doh:
 
You didn't have the best examples to go with - sj's rot, and so do paj chassis!

The only serious contender in the jap market is the patrols and cruisers - the rest are just toys! You need a good 4l engine under the bonnet! Mind, the old petrol patrols had so much torque, you could do donuts in them!

I agree for partd - as I said, that is land rovers strength and why they are still going. What is really nice about it, is they were designed to be a cheap working mans tool, and that is exactly what they still are!

My landy is 51 this year, though I do love my patrols, I wouldn't expect to see sixties models as commonly as I do landrovers, mind I wouldn't see a landy with half a million on either!

Alot of modern 4WD's are just a load of technical rubbish, dual mass flywheels, parts that cvost thousands- what a waste of time!
 
I agree fully with Auto. I joined this forum because I'm restoring a SI 80". But I feel strongly about this topic so I'm going to have to join in first. I love Land Rovers but they don't compare with the heavy jap vehicles.
natas said:
Jap 4x4s are like paper cups, work fine at first but are DISPOSABLE.

I bought a brand new Pajero SWB had it a year and sold it. I tried to use it how I wanted off road but it kept breaking.

I now have a 12 year old Defender for just over a year, this vehicle never stops amazing me. Things I have done in this I would never even tried in the Pajero.

I also owned a SJ413, had that for 3 or 4 years, great off road vehicle, could not get it stuck BUT it fell apart and rusted to pieces. I sold it for parts.

Speaking of parts. I import Land Rover parts all the way from Great Britain to nassau Bahamas Via FedEx!!! and am happy to pay the price because it is so much cheaper than buying the Jap or Korean parts from the local dealers.

Example:
My wife was driving a Hyundai Terrecan 4x4 TBi, 2006. I bought it new from the dealer in Nassau. The injector pump broke. Dealer says 3 moths to get a new one and it will cost $7K US or 4288.76GBP !!!!!! WTF

How much does a 300tdi injector pump cost?

I can get a new ****ing 300tdi engine for that money.......:doh:
Click to expand...
Um, Hyundai are Korean. Just like most others in this thread, you are not being fair. You can't compare vehicles in a lighter class to heavier ones. The competitor to 90s/110s are Landcruiser (40 and 70 series) and Patrol pickups, not Mitsubishis and hiluxes. So it's a problem when a hilux/D21 shows one up! You can't buy the proper LCs and Patrols here, so most people won't have much experience of them. Unfortunately, THEY make LRs seem like paper cups.

I feel I can comment on this as I've done a huge amount of work on them both. The landcruisers have heavier chassis (heavy gauge C section, not paper thin box), beefier axles, stronger less stressed motors, stronger gearboxes and stronger springs (and none of those STUPID steel sleeved bushes!). It is normal for these to do well over 1m km with no major faults. They are more like a light truck, the LR more like a heavy car. They define rugged and dependable, land rovers unreliable and weak in comparison.

It's crazy when people talk about the jap cars as light and crappy - the proper ones are much heavier and stronger! Of course they are also much more thirsty and heavier is not so good for off roading I guess. They also hung on to good old NA diesels for much much longer, along with no ECU and no electronic cr4p when LR had things like electronic throttles. Again, to prolong long engine life and nto trying desparately to squeeze as much power as they could from a little engine. Not to mention leaf springs - the stronger workman's setup - not the recreational comfort lovers system.

However, I do have a big soft spot for Land Rovers. I love series vehicles, SIs in particular. But IMO they started decling strongly with the advent of the 90/110
 
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