Jap 4x4s Vs Defenders

Ok, I'm having some good natured arguing with a fellow on another forum.

He's very much anti-defenders / landrovers and his gripes are thus:

Not in my world. A vehicle that repeatedly lets you down, gets you a nasty case of "dead". Equally one that requires constant tinkering is a drain on time as well as money.

The guy we bought our 110 200TDi from restored Pre - Defender models for a living - full re-builds from a new Galvi chassis upwards. He drove an Amazon.

100,000 miles in my LandCruiserr and it has no failures - none, zero, nada.

Total replacement parts to date have been fluids, filters, bulbs, one set of tyres and two brake shoes. Oh and one rear light cluster I rusted through not washing it for two years whilst off roading it

Landrovers have a place in the British heart from nostalgia, but even now they rust right off the fore court. There is no excuse for that bloody awful build quality.

If you look around the world, there are far far more Hilux pickups in tough places than there are Land Rovers - and many of them maintained in the most primitive way, if at all. Why do you think they are known as Talli Wagons?

Never going to agree on this - there is no excuse for making a tool badly, and Land Rovers are badly made. Since I got my BORDA qualifications a long time ago, I have driven a heck of a lot of different 4x4s andyeas, they are certainly competent off road. They also have a great towing capacity. Put for a survivalist? Most will do little off roading for years - if oil is still flowing, then roads are being maintained. At which point a reliable, cost effective jap pickup costs less to buy, less to run, less to maintain, carries more, is more adaptable, better ride quality etc.

Bear in mind that in many places off roading is almost impossible - fences, dykes, woods etc prevent it. For me, a right thinking survivalist picks load carrying and reliability first - and maybe spares and fuel economy next.

In many ways a Ford Transit would make a better choice!

That's what I'm up against...

I've tried explaining to him that Defenders (plus other landys) are pretty much the best, solid machine's out there but to no avail. Sure they rust but if you prep and keep on top of your chassis this is no problem

What is even more strange is he used to own defenders but seemed to be peeved by owing a few bad examples.

My gut instinct tells me that there's no way Jap 4x4 can match defenders, am I wrong?
I guess there's zillion's more parts and they are plastic fantastic...

A recurring theme I'm getting from a few Jap 4x4 converts is that because African warlords, Somali militia, Sudanese ragged janjaweed killers etc choose them then they must be great.
I've countered this with the fact that Landy's are thin on the ground, also mentioning that they are stolen to order for the 3rd world hellholes etc...

Am I barking at a white elephant or is this guy being a gomp?

Tell him to price up landy parts then the equivelant landcruiserluxjero bits and see what the prices are

ask him when was the last time a landcruiser was used in a challenge/comp ????? hmmmm ........ never !!!!!!!! because there ****e offroad the approach angel is terrible

tell him landcruisers were designed on computer built by robots an driven by idiots.....he's not a yank is he???

I second that price for parts arguement, I remember my dad getting a new alternator for our old rrc and the guy at the motor factors saying how the same for something jap would be 3 times the price.

Another thing, L200's etc still have leaf springs on the back, pretty old technology if you ask me.

gooselogan said:

I second that price for parts arguement, I remember my dad getting a new alternator for our old rrc and the guy at the motor factors saying how the same for something jap would be 3 times the price.

Another thing, L200's etc still have leaf springs on the back, pretty old technology if you ask me.

Click to expand...

but the shogun/pajero have coils and torsion bars. oh and rear diff locker or a lsd as standard.
the parts arguement doesn't really hold much water either.
the parts may cost more but you arn't replacing them every other week like on a landrover,
i am one of the jap converts.

after series, defenders, discoveries, freelanders and a full dealer service history piece of **** p38 i finally said **** it and bought a 1996 shoun 2.8td. it needed jobs doing when i got it 2 years ago that cost me a couple of hundred notes (shocks,service,rear brakepipes and a towbar).
since then i haven't had to do a thing to it apart from fitted some at2's and it's warped a disc (full new ones getting fitted all round when i get time at the weekend. £50 inc pads(ebay))

if i compare that to spending every weekend bawtered in oil and ****e fixing something or welding patches onto chocolate chassis. worrying if the freelander would make it through another journey. worrying if the p38 was going to blow another engine or the suspension collapse.worrying about where i park incase the car disables itself
i know i made the right choice...

don't get me wrong i do love landrovers but i wouldn't have another one give me at the moment.
it doesn't even look like the discovery 3/4 or the new freelanders are faring much better than the old ones either.

Tell him when is his ****ty Jap crap going to enter the Camel Trophy?

Landys don't have faults or breakdowns. They have character flaws or issues.
Jap crap is just that.

Tell him where can we find the same number of jap 4x4s as old as defender and that have been used for what they were built for?


Most Defenders were bought and used for what they were built for, they've had a hard life and there's still loads around after 20 years...

How many jap 4x4s have been used in rough conditions and are still around? probably none.

think this sums it up nicely

went to a payplay site with some mates when i was in kernow a while back , had a guy come along with a mitsa****ty short wheelbase we spent the whole fookin day dragging him out of the **** .
then we had a last drive all the way around the site before going home , he got half way around and the clutch gave up the ghost .
i ended up towing the cnut best part of 30 miles on a straight bar back to his place, half way back on a major A road he lost the wheel nuts off the n/s/f wheel

Of course he is totally right. Except I guess you were chatting on a survivalist forum>?? In which case he is utterly wrong.

yes, the jap stuff is bloody reliable an doesn't break, but when it does it is not easy to fix- just replace parts. The Landy, especially an older series, is designed to be repaired simply in the bush. Now in the end of the world as we know it scenario, where's he gouing to get spare parts and a garage from? Bear in mind that the solar flare EMP thingy will stop his jap vehicle working anyway... the Series looks the better choice.



But in the real world, Jap all the way. Why do I own two Landys then? because they have character- something by incredibly reliable and capable Paj never had. same reason I own a Ducati and not a Honda.



My mate's Paj, doing the decent thing..

Tell him that my Range Rover was stood for three years before I bought it, then had a new battery on, started and drove first time. Don't think jap crap would do that would it?

Ask him if the japs have cornered every part of the market.

FENDER = the best off roader in the world bar none.

DISCO = the best family car in the world and an engineering masterpiece. A monster off road.

RANGE ROVER = the best luxuary car in the world, fast and as good off road as a disco.

RANGE ROVER SPORT = the only sports off roader. 150mph and still as good as jap crap off road.

FREELANDER = the only real small off roader and a great family car. Not as good in the rough as a disco or a fender but it would stamp on an x trail or rav 4 any day

khaos said:

Ask him if the japs have cornered every part of the market.

Click to expand...

Or rather ask him if the Japs created the market in the first place? Land Rover did.

ed.poore said:

Or rather ask him if the Japs created the market in the first place? Land Rover did.

Click to expand...

They were to busy with radiation sickness at the time.

The Middle East is mainly a Jap market nowadays as is anything East of Greece. Its just how the sales went. Same reason why Yanks have lots of Ford 250's though JLR seem to have their foot firmly in that door

Main reason why so many Series are still going.... aluminium body and solid chassis. Build quality was never much looked at then. In this day and age it has to be......

I still think JLR are missing out by not making a Disco pickup

there is one reason only that the japs got the markets in the middle east, africa, australia etc from landrover and that was price. the jap stuff was simply much cheeper . land rover sales were cripled buy import duty and the spares net work was to slow.


iv always had a landy but iv had japs, 5x hi-lux, 2x diahatsu, mazda double cab, early land cruiser and a patrol. due to work and curiosity mainly, and not one of them has tempted me to get shot of the landy.
ok, they are fairly reliable, the heaters tend to work!, quite comfy, you can hear the radio! engines are ok. im running out of plus points tbh

on the other hand, the bodies rot of of them in no time, service and repair parts are seriously expensive! ( 28quid for a fuel filter!) **** off road, not as good to tow with, about as much character as the washing machine, no status, not great on fuel ( i know plenty of l200 guys getting 18mpg in a diesel)

my 110 is 22years old and its never let me down in any way. its a tool thats completly fit for purpose. however my mazda double cab was hidiously unreliable and it was only 4yrs old when i got rid. 675quid for an exhaust!!!! no chance.

this argument will always come up because they have to justify why they didnt buy a landy. its brand jealousy. its like the people who will argue that lidl is better than anywhere else cause its cheeper, it aint its just cheaper.

i would never swap me landy for a jap

What about indian crap.
I worked on a cattle station in the middle of oz and for use on the station the main tools were TATA. Mercedes engine and running gear I think, he swore by them and not at them. He also had a suzuki, patrol and landcruiser for use in the paddocks.
O yeah he was nearlly 2 days drive from anywhere

BuzzLand said:

Ok, I'm having some good natured arguing with a fellow on another forum.

He's very much anti-defenders / landrovers and his gripes are thus:

Not in my world. A vehicle that repeatedly lets you down, gets you a nasty case of "dead". Equally one that requires constant tinkering is a drain on time as well as money.

The guy we bought our 110 200TDi from restored Pre - Defender models for a living - full re-builds from a new Galvi chassis upwards. He drove an Amazon.

100,000 miles in my LandCruiserr and it has no failures - none, zero, nada.

Total replacement parts to date have been fluids, filters, bulbs, one set of tyres and two brake shoes. Oh and one rear light cluster I rusted through not washing it for two years whilst off roading it

Landrovers have a place in the British heart from nostalgia, but even now they rust right off the fore court. There is no excuse for that bloody awful build quality.

If you look around the world, there are far far more Hilux pickups in tough places than there are Land Rovers - and many of them maintained in the most primitive way, if at all. Why do you think they are known as Talli Wagons?

Never going to agree on this - there is no excuse for making a tool badly, and Land Rovers are badly made. Since I got my BORDA qualifications a long time ago, I have driven a heck of a lot of different 4x4s andyeas, they are certainly competent off road. They also have a great towing capacity. Put for a survivalist? Most will do little off roading for years - if oil is still flowing, then roads are being maintained. At which point a reliable, cost effective jap pickup costs less to buy, less to run, less to maintain, carries more, is more adaptable, better ride quality etc.

Bear in mind that in many places off roading is almost impossible - fences, dykes, woods etc prevent it. For me, a right thinking survivalist picks load carrying and reliability first - and maybe spares and fuel economy next.

In many ways a Ford Transit would make a better choice!

That's what I'm up against...

I've tried explaining to him that Defenders (plus other landys) are pretty much the best, solid machine's out there but to no avail. Sure they rust but if you prep and keep on top of your chassis this is no problem

What is even more strange is he used to own defenders but seemed to be peeved by owing a few bad examples.

My gut instinct tells me that there's no way Jap 4x4 can match defenders, am I wrong?
I guess there's zillion's more parts and they are plastic fantastic...

A recurring theme I'm getting from a few Jap 4x4 converts is that because African warlords, Somali militia, Sudanese ragged janjaweed killers etc choose them then they must be great.
I've countered this with the fact that Landy's are thin on the ground, also mentioning that they are stolen to order for the 3rd world hellholes etc...

Am I barking at a white elephant or is this guy being a gomp?

Click to expand...

your wrong his right.
Ya both plebs for going on a survivalist website.

We have L200's, Hi-lux's and a Navara at work oh and Outlanders. I had one of the L200's for 3 years and every time I took it for a service there was another warrenty recall to be done. There was rust appearing onthe doors, in the wet the rear axle always wanted to go down the road first and the ride and driving position was nothing short of torture. I had constant back pain from driving them and tried every positiion the seat could move to and still nothing.

The Hi-lux is comfier to drive and is better off road but the 2.5 TD has less power than a 300tdi, and the rear axle still want's to lead the car in the wet and the towing weight is not even worth putting a tow bar on it. On some of the first one's we got there's rust appearing around the windows and their only 2 years old.

The Navara is the worst out of the lot parts cost an arm and leg (rear light cluster £150), 6th gear is a joke and has the same revs as 5th, and it got stuck when the boss took on the off road driving course and had to be rescued by the instructors 110.

I won't go into the Outlander it's to pain full.