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It should be simple - 300Tdi FIP Timing.....

Discussion in 'Defender 90 / 110 / 130' started by Saint.V8, Feb 3, 2017.

  1. Saint.V8

    Saint.V8 Dyed-in-the-wool 100% RR Junkie

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    I have retimed the 300Tdi on the girlfriends Defender 110, I did it on her 200Tdi powered Ninety Truck Cab.....

    I have just acquired a 1988 110 County with a 300Tdi mated to the LT77 gearbox using what I can only assume is a 2.5N/A / TD Flywheel housing - so I can't lock the flywheel at TDC.....

    There is also no discernible mark on the timing cover or mark on the crank pulley I can make out and if there was, it would still be inaccurate enough to check the pump static timing...

    I could take the timing cover off and check the alignment of the Crank and Cam shafts to their respective timing marks.....

    Reason: She is quite smokey (white/grey with a hint of blue) on start up and for the first few hundred yards or so, then at anytime on the light throttle/over-run phase....so want to check FIP timing first then work from there.

    So my question(s) are thus:

    1). Is it possible to check the static timing of the FIP without locking the flywheel with the pin and not removing the timing cover? If so, how?

    2). If I remove the timing cover, is using the Crank/Cam alignment marks sufficient to check the FIP timing?

    ???
     
  2. Gmacz

    Gmacz Active Member

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    I have the same problem, 200tdi with td flywheel cover.
    You will not know what flywheel is fitted so marks could be all over the place. Fit a new belt and take away all the guessing.
    I went to see a low mileage 300tdi 110 and that smoked until it warmed up a bit.
    2)Pump pin in place, cam, crank on marks and job done.
     
  3. julianf

    julianf Well-Known Member

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    Its been a while since ive done one, but -

    Cant you tell the crank by the woodruff key position on the dampener? I know you would still have to take the bolt off, which is, by far, the largest of the bother, but you wouldnt have to take the timing cover off.

    ....but no way of telling the cam. Well, i guess there is by taking measurements from under the rocker cover, but i doubt thats worth the bother.


    In spite of all this -

    If its got blue in the smoke, what does it smell of? Any burning tyre smell? If so, that would be engine oil, rather than timing.

    I run bio so the contrast is a lot clearer for me - bio smells very different, no matter how much the timing is out, than the smell from oil leaking into the combustion pathway.
     
  4. lynall

    lynall Well-Known Member

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    I would cheat and mark up exactly what you have at present so you can return to the original settings, then advance the pump timing a little until you are happy.
    Of course if you can get a 300 housing you always mark and drill the timing hole onto the 2.5td housing?
     
  5. Saint.V8

    Saint.V8 Dyed-in-the-wool 100% RR Junkie

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    Thanks for the replies chaps, I think the general consensus would be to remove the timing cover and check the marks, and while its off and it is new to me, I may aswell change the belt while I'm in there, just so I know it is new....

    New query:
    On the 200Tdi we had in the Ninety TC, it was recommended to replace the idler and tensioner along with the new belt, is the same true of the 300Tdi?
     
  6. chrisstdt

    chrisstdt Active Member

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    Unless they are obviously very new id change them ,also worth getting the kit with the modified crank pulley
     
  7. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member

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    I always do - the extra cost is minimal, and the peace of mind worth the extra IMHO.

    Have you seen the glencoyne site - full of useful info about the 300's...?

    http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/belt.htm

    :)
     
  8. Saint.V8

    Saint.V8 Dyed-in-the-wool 100% RR Junkie

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    So what was the change to crank damper?
    I have see nthat site and it is, as you, full of very useful notes and tips on the 200 and 300 Tdi engines....I refered to it when I did the belt change on the 200Tdi....gotta love the internet!
     
  9. Saint.V8

    Saint.V8 Dyed-in-the-wool 100% RR Junkie

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    OK....

    Looking through the timing belt kits/sets available, there seems to be a few....

    Late - Early - Plastic Tensioner - Metal Tensioner - Modified

    How the feck do I know which one I need before I take the timing cover off....also what is the 'modified' set?
     
  10. lynall

    lynall Well-Known Member

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    From memory there were two type of mods for the 300 belts all because the fip sprocket didnt line up properly with the crank sprocket.
    1st and cheapest was a new crank pulley that basically had sides to keep the belt in check.
    2nd and quite dear was whole new timing belt housing.
    Again from memory if the mod was done the guy doing it was meant to mark the housing with a yellow paint mark.
    Truth be told its probably been done and quick simple check is to see if theres any belt dust in the inspection/drain hole at the bottom of the chest, if clear its good.
    So as you can see what Ive posted is of no use to mankind until you strip it down and see whats what!
     
  11. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    later or modified has the guide lips on the crank sprocket not the tensioner,early is the other way round
     
    Disco1BFG and neilly like this.
  12. neilly

    neilly Well-Known Member

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  13. Gmacz

    Gmacz Active Member

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    Paddocks have timing kits, i got the 200tdi defender kit and needed the disco1 kit instead. Now need to get water and timing gaskets. Check what 300tdi engine is in the 110 and look in the proper vehicle parts list. Plenty people have fitted these kits multiple times without any probs.
     
  14. David_Cooper

    David_Cooper Active Member

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    I actually had to take my belt cover off the (new to me) 300TDi Discovery, to see if it had any modified parts. It had/ has none at all, ie it's still on the original plain crank pulley, plain idler and shouldered tensioner. It hadn't chewed the belt, but I now have the following to go on-
    INA plain tensioner - LHP100860G
    Britpart shouldered crank pulley - LHH100660
    INA plain idler - LHV100150
    Dayco belt - ERR1092
    pulley fitting kit - STC4096FK

    I'm also doing the inner crank seal at the same time (ERR4575) and it's o-ring (ERR4710).

    If the vehicle's a keeper, I'd do it all in one go, with quality parts and it'll last for years!
     
  15. SpringDon

    SpringDon Well-Known Member

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    If you will pardon me inserting myself, but is it timed on tdc or exhaust peak? 12j engines are on exhaust peak which you can get even without flywheel marks by using a dti on the exhaust valve of cylinder 1.
     
  16. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    tis are timed at tdc unlike the red blocks
     
  17. Saint.V8

    Saint.V8 Dyed-in-the-wool 100% RR Junkie

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    Groovy, many thanks for the links and vids....

    Think the only real way forward is to remove the timing cover and take a goosey, then put it back and order the bits!
     
  18. Saint.V8

    Saint.V8 Dyed-in-the-wool 100% RR Junkie

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    So can I fit the modified Crank Pulley etc to an engine that has not previously had it fitted?
     
  19. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    yes its just a direct replacement
     
  20. Saint.V8

    Saint.V8 Dyed-in-the-wool 100% RR Junkie

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    Perfect, thanks JM.....makes ordering things easier without having to take things apart!