Is my 200tdi really a 2.5N/A?

its a defender transfer box...

tyres are 265/75/R16 insa turbos special track...

I had a disco before and it was very slugish, i never used 5th as it wouldnt do anything..
when i bought the 90, I was quite surprised on how quick it was..
I bought it from further down south (cant remember the place name) and i remember coming all the way up on the A303 in 5th gear and i was playing on every hill letting it slow down and then puting my foot down at the start of the hills.....always in 5th!
was just amazed with the difference from the disco..

and it still does that.

Yes..just had a crackin chat with Adz..looks like my gearing is out with the combo i have, disco TB with 235/85/16 AT's.

Thats one of the problems anyway!!

storm99 said:

Yes..just had a crackin chat with Adz..looks like my gearing is out with the combo i have, disco TB with 235/85/16 AT's.

Thats one of the problems anyway!!

Click to expand...

What's wrong with that set-up? Mine is very similar but with 265 width tyres

Langers said:

What's wrong with that set-up? Mine is very similar but with 265 width tyres

Click to expand...

Well its one of the probs..are you running the disco transfer box too? I've got some issues with the turbo or fuel delivery too which i'm hoping to clear up this weekend..but i think the wheel/tyres are right on the limit for that TB as i understand it.

storm99 said:

Well its one of the probs..are you running the disco transfer box too? I've got some issues with the turbo or fuel delivery too which i'm hoping to clear up this weekend..but i think the wheel/tyres are right on the limit for that TB as i understand it.

Click to expand...

Yeah Disco transferbox on mine off my donor. Good luck with it hope it's something simple Nn all

storm99 said:

Yes..just had a crackin chat with Adz..looks like my gearing is out with the combo i have, disco TB with 235/85/16 AT's.

Thats one of the problems anyway!!

Click to expand...

Hi Storm,

Your gearing setup (taking your transfer box and wheel / tyre diameters into consideration) shouldn't really be holding your engine back all that much. I have a 200tdi hooked up to an lt77 on the standard Defender transfer box with 235 x 85 x r16 tyres and it absolutely flies. I have achieved 40.02 MPG on a steady run across the country (averaging 50mph) and 27-28 MPG on work / local runs. On motor way runs between Leeds and Ipswich (220 miles) I can achieve 35-37 MPG and it will sit happily at 65 - 70 MPH with the standard Defender transfer box, but will reach 85 at a push. It will also accelerate from 0 - 60 in around 17-19 seconds which is exceptional as far as I am concerned. I have driven a Defender with a 200tdi Disco transfer box and 235 x 85 x r16 tyres and it almost matched my motor, albeit being a little slower on take off - but not so much a dramatic difference. Unfortunately I can not comment on its performance on the motor-way because I only took it down the local bypass.

I think that you need to be testing various things your self before you start paying your local mechanic a shed load of money. Here is a list that might just help you along, starting with the basic things and then working through to the more complex things, all of which are FREE. If you follow this, you should have a given your engine, fuel and air delivery system a thorough inspection and if nothing comes up, then you should be tempted to look into compression / leakage testing:

Fuel:

- Remove pickup pipe from fuel tank and check for blockages.
- Examine pick up pipe for pin holes / rot that will allow air into the fuel
- Follow fuel line from tank to lift pump ensuring pipe is not kinked / collapsed
- Ensure no leaks in fuel line between pick up pipe and lift pump
- Ensure no leaks in fuel line between lift pump and fuel filter housing (replace copper washers)
- Ensure fuel filter is not clogged
- Ensure no rubber seals from previous fuel filters are stuck to fuel filter housing
- Ensure fuel filter housing is not cracked on top
- Ensure 10mm bleed bolt on top of fuel filter housing is secure with copper washer
- Ensure no leaks in fuel line between filter housing and injection pump (replace copper washers)
- Ensure injector pipes are not leaking / weeping fuel at connections
- Ensure injector pipes are not perforated which will allow air into fuel
- Ensure spill rail banjo bolts from injectors are secure (replace copper washers)
- Ensure spill rail rubber pipe work is tight on banjo nuts and not brittle / split
- Remove and inspect filter mesh and pin hole in fuel return bolt from injection pump (replace copper washers)
- Ensure no leaks in fuel return line

Air:

- Ensure air filter is not clogged / damp
- Ensure CAF (cold air feed) pipe between filter and turbo inlet is not collapsed
- Ensure boost pipe between turbo outlet and intercooler is not collapsed / loose
- Ensure intercooler is clean (use paraffin)
- Ensure intercooler is not split / perforated
- Ensure boost pipe between intercooler outlet and inlet manifold is not collapsed / loose


Engine:

- Ensure lift pump is working correctly (should throw fuel at bonnet with pipe to filter housing removed)
- Ensure valve clearances are set correctly (.20mm / 8 thou)
- Ensure injection timing is not retarded (can be done by removing inspection cover or timing case)
- Ensure plastic pipe between turbo and injection pump is in situ and in good condition (replace copper washers)
- Ensure turbo oil feed / return lines are clear
- Ensure turbo waste gate is not stuck open
- Ensure turbo waste gate actuator arm is connected
- Ensure fuel pin under boost diaphragm in injection pump is not seized

And that's all I can think of for now. If there's anything you want further information on, just ask!

-Pos

Blimey POS, you're a star...as I said to Adz, its my first turbo diesel and i'm learning as i go along...i've printed that lot out and i'm going to have a good look at things on Saturday with Adz shouting at me on Skype..lol...cheers folks!

When you had starting issues did it turn over more than a couple of times before "firing" if so you have an air leak or other issues that need sorting fitting a new battery may not have cured th eoriginal fault. 200's should start half a turn of the key hot or cold even minus -15

storm99 said:

Blimey POS, you're a star...as I said to Adz, its my first turbo diesel and i'm learning as i go along...i've printed that lot out and i'm going to have a good look at things on Saturday with Adz shouting at me on Skype..lol...cheers folks!

Click to expand...

No problem I've got troubles with my own 200tdi. There is air getting into my fuel line and it's a complete bugger to resolve. It's causing a rough / lumpy idle, smoke on start-up and poor performance. It appears to bleed the air from the system whilst driving and then the engine will perform spot on, but it will find its way back in when the engine has been switched off for anything over 5 minutes. It has also just decided to start making a nice metallic sound which I am not too keen on

-Tom

jai_landrover said:

When you had starting issues did it turn over more than a couple of times before "firing" if so you have an air leak or other issues that need sorting fitting a new battery may not have cured th eoriginal fault. 200's should start half a turn of the key hot or cold even minus -15

Click to expand...

Yeps, it took a fair few attempts and flattened the battery.

Have a quick check of you fuel pickup pipes under your drivers seat these are common to rust and sometimes a tiny pin prick goes right through and causes a whole world of pain

Nothing wrong with the gearing, provided everything else is working as it should.

My thinking is this - the engine runs fine once started, there's no smoke on startup or when running which suggests there's plenty of air available for the fuel that's being delivered and with no lumpiness or misfiring (correct me if I'm wrong on that Storm) there's enough fuel being delivered.

Because of the 'low torque in fifth' symptom and the turbo not making much noise in first and second, I have an instant gut feeling that there's no additional fueling on boost - either the pipe to the top of the IP is disconnected or blocked or the diaphragm in the top of the IP is split or stuck to the casing. Since this is as simple as "remove four screws and unplug a pipe and blow through it" to check all the above, it's an easy place to start.

Without the additional fueling on boost, I reckon the tall gearing is probably enough to stop it accelerating much in fifth. When the pipe to the top of the IP was blocked on mine it was as gutless as all get out and mine has a 1.4 tbox not a 1.2

Bloody good list Pos

The thing that has got me most interested is the fact that Storm's 200tdi used to perform well (according to one of his posts earlier in the thread). I quote Storm from his original post:

Now I vaguely remember 6 months ago when the conversion was done that it would sit at 65mph and once, just to see what she had, I did 80mph.

Click to expand...

Now did the engine perform this well before or after you fitted the discovery transfer box and larger tyres? I am going to stick to what I said earlier with regards to the higher gear ratio not making too drastic a difference (based on my own personal experience with my vehicle running 235 x 85 x r16 tyres with the Defender transfer box and another vehicle with the same size tyres and the discovery transfer box). If the gearing has not changed since your 200tdi engine performed well, common sense would suggest that something has gone wrong with the engine it's self. I'd put my money on the problem being fuel delivery / air contamination related because even the smallest ammount of air in the fuel on these engines will dramatically lower its performance. A binding hand brake, brake shoes or brake pads could also cause the problems you are describing so you might decide to go down that route also . Also bear in mind that I was having extremely drastic performance issues a few months back, and it turned out that my injectors were well worn. I refurbished them my self and had them set up correctly at a diesel shop which made a tremendous difference. I think that having your injectors tested would be my third resort after having run through everything on the list that I compiled earlier and then paying your local mechanic for a leakage / compression test.

With the engine up to operating temperature, if you remove the breather pipe from the cyclone unit on the rocker cover (keeping the oil filler cap screwed in place), is there much blow-by from the outlet?

-Tom

All sounds about right Adz, no smoke or misfires, engine runs sweet.

I thought you were going to bed?

Pos, set-up has always been the same, just seems performance dropped off steadily over the last 3 months or so...so its def an engine issue, and i'm going to try to rule out the most common/obvious things first..i.e hoses, etc before i go down the route of injectors etc.

''With the engine up to operating temperature, if you remove the breather pipe from the cyclone unit on the rocker cover (keeping the oil filler cap screwed in place), is there much blow-by from the outlet?''

Don't know..will add to list of things to try.

Ere wot exhaust did you have fitted?
was it for an na or td?

Original N/A exhaust on it.

storm99 said:

Original N/A exhaust on it.

Click to expand...

that wunt original it was to shiney
but it may be a cause of yer problems,them turbo,s get bloody hot an the gases do like a full flowing exhaust and a na is a little restrictive

I got a new exhaust on it when i bought it a year ago mate...i will be putting a str8 thru on it at some point though..first things first and all that..i may even get it done when i nip over for the next MOT if you want to have a go..