Freelander 1 IRD pinion gears

Hi Hippo,
Just a fort? :scratching_chin:
When setting up the pinnion in the diff there's a compressable sleeve that is used to set the bearing pre-load and get the mesh of the pinnion and crown wheel right.
On the IRD could it be as simple as fitting a new shim to get your pinnion engaged a bit further into the crown wheel?
The pic's look as tho' the crown wheel tips have worn due to too much slack - maybe a squashed shim thro' overtightening/retightening the flange nut or worn output bearing?
Worth a try while you've got the pinnion off?
Just a fort?

the collapsable spacer just helps keep nut tight it does need to be compressed to achieve preload but doesnt effect mesh shims on pinion do hieght ,shims or adjusters on carrier do mesh /backlash

Hi James,
Fink's we're on the same w/length.
Re-using diff spacer or overtightening will give bad bearing adjustment or cause premature bearing wear > hence sloppy mesh.
Overtightening/re-tightening IRD nut may have squashed plastic spacer or caused bearing wear (assuming it's a taper?) > slack pinnion to crown wheel mesh.
Hippo did not suggest that they may have adjusted carriers in the IRD - so discounted that avenue.
When a plastic spacer got mentioned - alarm bells!
Just fort it may be worth a look see?

hippo, it is possible there are shims missing behind the ionternal gear, as that would mess up the gear mesh as well
both gears must be adjustable to get the right drive.

The Mad Hat Man said:

Ere Hippo.
Have yu tried contacting Austen?
Remember the VCU test thread?

Not sure if he does them, but it has to be worth a PM, Shirley?

Click to expand...

Dun't call me Shirley.
Will send him a pm soon. Spoke to him about the testing before and he was thinking of setting up the test wiff a vcu and diff on a bench, as it would be easier. Does the same thing. Thinks he's very busy.

TD John said:

Hi Hippo,
Just a fort? :scratching_chin:
When setting up the pinnion in the diff there's a compressable sleeve that is used to set the bearing pre-load and get the mesh of the pinnion and crown wheel right.
On the IRD could it be as simple as fitting a new shim to get your pinnion engaged a bit further into the crown wheel?
The pic's look as tho' the crown wheel tips have worn due to too much slack - maybe a squashed shim thro' overtightening/retightening the flange nut or worn output bearing?
Worth a try while you've got the pinnion off?
Just a fort?

Click to expand...

I just took the pinion gear out, and put it back. Didn't take it out of it's sleve thing, or make adjustment to it. The spacer was a sort of tough plastic. Looked like it was cut to the perfect shape, so the propper one it should have. Is the output bearing inside the pinion sleve thing?

freelance said:

hippo, it is possible there are shims missing behind the ionternal gear, as that would mess up the gear mesh as well
both gears must be adjustable to get the right drive.

Click to expand...

Not sure. Can only see from the photo's I took. Gears didn't seem to move when I wobbled them, but that int a good enough test. Haven't taken the ird apart. Pinion does spin a little when you turn it in it's sleve. But it does seem to turn ok. Not sure it thats enough to create the squeal or not.

There's a video of the squeal coming soon. Just uploading it.

out put brg is in housing holding pinion,bevel gear looked like oil shortage at one time as far as colud be seen

Just to recap on the facts so far… fer clarity…

Squeal started about 50 to 100 miles after the auto gearbox was changed. Auto changed as it wouldn’t stop leaking from seals. Low oil destroyed the torque converter. Huge argument wiff main dealer over this, and gave up due to the hassle and the fact that an engineering report wouldn’t pin point the cause – they’re none intrusive and expert said he would be wasting my money.

Main dealer was trying to push me down the IRD replacement lines. I said change it and if it solves the problem, then I pay. They didn’t. Funny how when helping wiff quotes for the auto to be replaced, they said any faults just bring it back. Different story when yer pays.
They replaced the alternator as it was said to be noisy, and stated the PAS pump was noisy too. 50% refund on alternator as fault int proportional to engine speed. Kin bastids eh? Squeal still there.
Loads of test drives wiff em. Tell us when you can hear it crap. Strange how they struggled to give me the car back after replacing the auto, plus a 60k service and pads/disks on the front. Me thinks they were having problems.
Auto replacement was done by removing the engine/auto/ird as one piece, then auto replaced on the floor. Doesn’t look like they changed the IRD or opened it.

It’s squealed like this for the last 15,000 miles, or 3.5 years.
IRD oil was found to be 1 to 2 inches low from memory. Dealer topped it up un said nothing to worry about. Engines can run on one L of oil. Could be they drove it wiffout oil in the IRD after the auto change. But don't know why the squeal didn't happen straight away.
IRD oil spec test said high phosphorus count, which is normally due to additives. Also high iron content due to wear of bore/ring/crankshaft type of stuff, and a small amount of water.

Squeal starts at 25mph when accelerating from 0mph. If you hold 3rd gear until 40mph, then change to 4th, squeal starts then. This would make me think it’s the auto at fault, as it’s 25mph plus, or when in 4th gear.
Squeal sound changes when you take your feet orf at speed. Also whilst breaking. Disappears below 25mph. This would make me think the IRD or inner diff is unhappy.

Visited Ashcrofts auto fitter some time ago and they couldn’t say for sure what the fault was. The roads were a bit wet so the noise wasn’t as clear due to water whoosh and rain. Could be that my hearing is betterer, but others can hear it too. To be fair to them they did take if for a drive and wouldn’t except any money for their efforts in listening/driving it to help out. Advice was to put up wiff it and take it back when it’s more noticeable on what the fault is. Would be unlucky for an IRD to fail straight after and auto replacement. A reasonable and fair diagnosis I think.

When removing the propshaft (un leaving the pinion gear in place) some time ago the noise went away. Chassis ears proved the squeal is coming from the front. This could either be less stress on the IRD, reducing the squeal. Could also be resonance coming out the IRD and echoed by the propshaft perhaps? May try some pipe lagging to see if it reduces it perhaps. The gaiter on the end of the propshaft is missing as they usually fall apart. Wasn't sure if that was the cause of possible resonance being passed to the propshaft from the IRD.

Oil is 75w90 comma stuff. Goes in clear, and comes out milk chocolate brown. Have washed it wiff regular oil changes many times.
Took the pinion gear out 6 months ago and couldn’t see anything wrong. No loose gears inside. Haven’t taken the IRD apart in anyway. 2nd hand pinion gear looked the same as mine, but wiffout the shim thing. Not taken the pinion apart either.

Got to the point of leave it as it is as we don’t know what’s wrong wiff it. As said above, it’s a v6 and 10 years old. Slight oil leak from the engine main seal between it and the auto. Dealer saw it but said it weren’t enough to replace a £35 seal – they had the ****er apart on the floor when changing the auto. Thing is it runs ok. Takes me orf road and does what I need it to do.

Ere's the video: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rqaBgzJws"]YouTube - ‪Freelander 1 v6 Squeal‬‏[/nomedia]

irds hold very little oil as you know level(bloke was talking bollocks) is very important as is splash lubricated ,engines can run on oil off the stick as is pumped from bottom and level means nothing as long as there just enough for pump ,youve been lucky its still driving but unlucky someone damaged it noise is classic gear damage ,removing prop does take load off and hence clears noise

Fink you're on the Monet James.
Sounds like a helical gear meshing type noise.
Remember me Mk1 Rangey and Deepender four speed boxes had that sound several times over throughout the rev range.
Always traces back to the helical cut gears in low-range or transfer box.
You may notice a different noise in reverse if the IRD is starting to make a noise (like the diff does).
If the IRD pinion bearing is ok, just keep the oil level well up and maybe you could try an additive to quiet it down - some of them do work?
Any suggestions on a good one James? (seem to recall STP did some ptfe based stuff that quietened the Rangey transfer box, long time since I looked at any tho')