Improve fuel consumption.

Hi guys

Sorry for what might be a stupid, I’m a newbie here ….. my wife and I are planning an overland trip and like so many before us are doing the Land Rover vs; Land Cruiser discussion.

The LR wins hands down regarding living space, supply, back-up and the affordability of overland accessories… roof racks & extended tanks etc.

We’re be looking for either a 200 or 300 tdi 110 and I’m wondering are there possibilities to improve the fuel consumption eg free wheeling hubs / 5 gear "overdrive" !! tyre choice / with or with-out a roof rack etc. any pointers are welcome…

Kind regards
Matthew

The biggest ways of reducing fuel consumption is driving style and avoiding overloading, a temptation on expeditions when you want to take everything you might need.
As regards your suggestions, they are already 5 speed, although you can raise the gearing with Discovery parts, and there is an overdrive available, at a cost. But beware, if the vehicle is already working hard to carry the load, raising the gearing will not necessarily improve the consumption.
As for Free Wheel Hubs, some one has been feeding you 30 year old information. All Land Rovers are now permanent four wheel drive, so FWH do not work.

Seen your post on the HUBB Matt, welcome to LZ.

After Davec's history lesson the best advice I can give would be to try and get everything in the back of the 110 and to not have a roofrack. this will severely impare your MPG. The numbers quoted by Mr. Savage were about right if your machine is very well serviced, your air filter is changed more often than servicing suggests, and you have no rack/RTT. Do your best to stick to 60/65MPH and maybe with disco/RR diffs you can claw some back. you will still be somewhere between 25-30MPG you wont get any better than that i am afraid. Road bias/ all terrain tyres will help but ultimately your talking overall of gaining 1-3MPG by sacrificing many things. I get about 26-27 out of my 90 with a RTT (300tdi) 25 on unsealed roads, all on MT tyres, roll cage and fully loaded. There are no compramises with my rig, I just live with the MPG it gives me

hope this helps.

G

Griffdowg said:

maybe with disco/RR diffs you can claw some back.

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err RRC / Disco Diffs are the same as Defender.

I think you're confoosed with the T/F box, which has a higher ratio (but too high to pull 33"+ tyres in 5th comfortably).

doh! I was confused with series bits, all thats been on my mind recently.

T/Box ratio it is

G

are you still considering the cruiser, or have you now decided on the LR?

Thanks guys for the feed back….

You know the jury is still out on the LR vs LC purchase !!!

Maybe I start at the beginning, after 5 bike holidays I’ve promised my wife something a little more comfortable and a little more space… My preference is the ability it sleep inside in comfort. We’ve had a few scares where we only found accommodation late at night after exhausting days riding. A comfortable bed is everything !!!

I’m looking to go north next summer, direction Norway maybe even North Cape. Ultimately we’re planning to drive to India in 2012.

So fuel consumption and comfort are a key concern, as is the availability of parts.

The 110 wins hands down, for living in and I’ve found the Ex-Tex guys in Germany who sell a very cool pop out side… However 110 fetch good money even with big miles …. They are not the most comfortable from a driving position and reliability ! OK but support / parts and knowledge is incredible.

Disco – great car and would be ideal but just misses something… I guess they are as reliable as a 110… a little short in the back to sleep in and maybe too much glass in the roof – for hot days.

LC 80 – Fetch top money even with 250;000 miles – Jap import with a auto box are cheaper but fuel consumption is poor. Parts are easy to find in Iran / Pakistan / India ! Basic Overland parts are very expensive eg roof racks and additional fuel tanks.

LC60 – Looks great but rather old, you only find rusty projects for £1250 or fully ready to for £6000

HJ’s crazy money !!! however just been offered one with pop-up roof ready to go for €7500 – what’s the catch !!!

LJ’s mostly 2.4 D auto’s and most have or need head work.. I’ve been told to stay away from small engined Toyota’s. Big engined ones are hard to find.

Hi-Lux very popular as tourist rentals in south Africa, very capable – not able to sleep in it…. Reliable and parts are easily available. Overlanding parts expensive in the UK…

So the conclusion, we don’t really need a 4X4 it’s a nice to have and will enable us to get off and see more rural locations… Would love an old Pug 505 4X4 – but only if we where heading to Africa…VDubbs, Hi-aces and Bongo’s etc great and plenty of space but limited ground clearance and I wonder if they are really very strong. Troopers and Shoguns are great but not as common, so no need to reinvent the wheel ….


The above is only my personal view… just read a blog of a guy who’s driving the Americas and Africa in a limo !!!

Cheers
Matt

Hi Matt

From what I can see you are planning some long trips. Your right that the landrover wins hands down when it comes to options, layouts, looks etc.

However, with long, solo, trips in mind I think you have to consider the reliability factor. Boring I know, and it´s easy to imagine that you´ll be ok, but the one thing that´ll ruin your adventure travel more than anything is a breakdown.

For this reason alone my advice is to go with a jap build eveytime - they don`t go wrong. Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi are all great.

Find ways of getting around other issues like space, accessories etc, because you´ll never regret having a reliable vehicle.

However, you also say that a 4x4 is a "nice to have" but not a must. Here I would agree, and go on the say that the vast majority of overlanding done in a 4x4 can easily be done in a 2 wheel drive vehicle as well. I would say 90% of the off road journeys that most 4x4ers take are on reasonable flat dirt roads, where saloon cars and all maner of 2 wheel drive vans cope perfectly OK.

Therefore, I would advise getting a van, a merc if you can, and this way you´ll have all the space you need, something that´s fuel efficent, and that won´t (hpefully) break down.

Only get a landrover if --

- you are going to go with other landrovers or if you are capable of fixing the majority of problems yourself.

- you understand the risks, and admit that if you buy one its becasue you just can´t resist, not becasue your kidding yourself that its the most practicle decision. There is no shame in this by the way, majority of landy owners i´m sure would agree.

GWW - this may not be the case for you and sounds like you may have already considered in any case given the research you have done so far.

Our view in any case:

We have a Land Rover 110 planned for a big trip next year and having done a 52-day shakedown this past summer our eyes were well and truly opened in terms of what to expect with regard to breakdown and mechanics etc.

OK, we got a bit unlucky with what happened (extremely unfortunate) but add to this that fact that we are not mechanically minded and this made a huge difference to diagnosing seriousness of issues (let alone fixing and confidence in vehicle) throughout trip.

Unexpected vehicle issues very much adds to the planned budget (we managed to spend a whopping 60% more than expected – much, much more than the norm in our case – causing us hotel stay, route change, storage, repair costs etc). Saying that, we know a couple who have driven as far as India from UK using much older 110 and not had any issues to note. Same vehicle had also previous reached Cape Town and back. On the other side of the fence we know a LC that reached Thailand before being finally shipped back to the UK as neither the parts (despite shipping from UK 3 times) or the expertise were available to fix locally. Maybe it’s the luck of the draw. But interesting to note is that some of the more die hard overlanders who've been doing it for years using LR's now use LC's themselves. I think our famous T Sheppard is one of these. LC's are now voted the number one overland vehicle of choice (read somewhere).

Since returning from our trip, we are sticking with the LR for practicality/layout, 'desire' & 'smiles' rather than having heads screwed on sometimes we think – and we love it despite it’s tendency to like garages a little bit ‘too’ much lately. Maybe things will start going right for us now (we have to keep kissing the LR - likes attention!).

We also think it’s also about the type of experience and living your after.
LC’s do not smack of fun, chill out, chucking around or great muddy times. The LR on the other hand…..another story.

Sensible mode made us look into the frequency of LR breakdowns/issues (a reality check) - and our findings showed there are too frequent versus the more modern, faster, economical beasts of today. It is worth doing some research as very interesting. But the more modern beasts still have issues and can be limited in terms of what you can do. So as long as eyes wide open as J says – then good decision-making can be made.

As those who know us on the forum will testify - right now, the idea of trading in LR for something else leaves us emotional wrecks - LR is staying but we continually question – only time will tell. We thought a truck would in fact be by far the best solution and we still have time to trade but this presents a host of brand new considerations. When it comes down to it, it’s about the trip and the vehicle is very much a part of that. Our kids love the LR. It’s practical, easy to adapt, so much fun, (hateful when it breaks down) and fantastic to play with - like part of the family (I hate saying that about a LR but there you go – we are well and truly hooked).

Think if planning a big trip and you want to sleep in the vehicle - a truck would be first on our list next time around - space, insulation, security, parking. Maybe that’s for when we are more grown up overlanders and more sensible and have been stripped (though we have been already) of all our cash and maybe have to think differently. We would look at LC for reliability and effiiciency (you can also fit roof tent if sleeping room restricted inside but you probably know this).

Don’t know how others feel but we slept in the LR and it is not insulated and very noisy so think it is more for the occassional than the rule but then were 4 of us all squished in unexpectedly. But even for 2 people, reckon that this should be a consideration.

But sleeping in the vehicle is defo the way to go to avoid costly late night hotels, provide freedom and versatility. Well - in the more expensive countries in any case. Our vehicle issues cost us dearly this year – LR sat happily being pampered in every garage we passed while we were forced into hotels and restaurants we had wanted to avoid! Having said all that, LR wins hands down for us - makes us laugh!

My car vehicle choice is neither practical, ecomomical or comfortable but I can see that there are some rounded opinions above - I went purely on fun - and I like a bit of a challenge! Personally don't see the point in making an expedition as easy as possible but of course each to their own.

Back to the original question r.e MPG though and then Land Cruisers...what do the Diesel LC get? 25MPG perhaps? Not that much in it between that and a LR?

goodwoodweirdo

You´ve just got to read Cassie´s web page, go to ´Vehicle & Caravan Mechanical fault issues´ I rest my case.

Poor Cassie, thinks they were unfortunate! Truth is this is the norm for many landrovers. Lets see how they feel next year when they have had another set of ´unlucky´ mechanical failers!

I repeat, you need to be mechanicaly competent and know how to fixe these problems yourself. You need to take spares, and tools.

I am only trying to save you grief.

rustyrhinos said:

My car vehicle choice is neither practical, ecomomical or comfortable but I can see that there are some rounded opinions above - I went purely on fun - and I like a bit of a challenge! Personally don't see the point in making an expedition as easy as possible but of course each to their own.

Back to the original question r.e MPG though and then Land Cruisers...what do the Diesel LC get? 25MPG perhaps? Not that much in it between that and a LR?

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I find there are plently of rewarding challenges to be had when overlanding that don´t involve tedious mechanical failer. I don´t see how that suggests I try to make my expeditions as éasy as possible´.

If you rely on vehicle failer for your challenges then you must tbe doing somehting wrong when traveling. At least, on the upside, you have made the perfect choice.

I wonder how much fun it was for Cassie and family stuck without their car for 15 days and a bill of £1,500. I´m sure they were saying to themsleves `what a wonderfull challenge we are all having, this is what overlanding is all about- hey Kids?`

jmpc said:

I find there are plently of rewarding challenges to be had when overlanding that don´t involve tedious mechanical failer. I don´t see how that suggests I try to make my expeditions as éasy as possible´.

If you rely on vehicle failer for your challenges then you must tbe doing somehting wrong when traveling. At least, on the upside, you have made the perfect choice.

I wonder how much fun it was for Cassie and family stuck without their car for 15 days and a bill of £1,500. I´m sure they were saying to themsleves `what a wonderfull challenge we are all having, this is what overlanding is all about- hey Kids?`

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And while I´m having to correct ignorant statements or opinions, here´s another. Cassie , what on earth are you doing recommeding the Azalai? And are you qualified? Do you think you should
recommend anything, seeing as you didn´t even appear to have spare wheel for your caravan?

The Azalia does exaclty the same job as a demountable camper, only its twice the price, and, oh yes, it´s not demountable!!

So, you spend 30 grand not 15 and your stuck with the vehicle its attached to. The Azalai is moulded, welded on to the chassi of the pickup, it does not come off.

A normall demountable camper, (which is the same thing as this so called `exeptional vehicle`) has the advangate of being able to be removed from the back of the pickup in about 10 minutes, so you can leave it in the campsite and have a fully functioning base camp while you use your vehicle for other things.

Demountable camper naturally can be swapped between pickups, so you can change your pickup when you like, mainting the resell value of each.

Why anyone would buy an Azalai instead of a demountable is beyound reason.

I have no relationship with any demountable camper agents or manufactures, I am just offering some common sense, which seams to be in very short supply here-check out Demountable campers from NSR Leisure for exmaple.

At the time we wanted to send the LR packing but there's plenty of peeps that made successful trips without serious disasters or issues. Kids loved the tow truck and their yellow hi-viz vests! We all loved the experience and like RR, on reflection, we did enjoy the challenge - just not the money side which was £2K on repairs alone - won't go into the rest we spent while waiting etc. But it hasn't put us off.
Suppose it could also be a case of how remote, off road, isolated any planned trips might be. Maybe the choice of vehicle should factor in this. Had we been stuck in the desert - a whole host of other issues would have arisen. In our case - planned largely on road and likely passing through many built up areas, villages etc. en-route.
Our major 'knock-on' vehicle fault was down to our mechanic who has taken cost responsibility so reality is that we only then had a fuel pump issue which didn't actually take us off the road until we decided - just very slow going. getting back to fuel consumption for this post - what is the most economical? How economical a 110 / 90 compared to the rest?

J - get your facts right! I am not recommending Azalai's and have never claimed to be qualified to do so. This was a surmise rather than ignorance as you put it when looking at truck options as possible alternatives / options. What you decide to do and what other's prefer / think or look at is a matter of opinion and their own experiences.

Cassie said:

J - get your facts right! I am not recommending Azalai's and have never claimed to be qualified to do so. This was a surmise rather than ignorance as you put it when looking at truck options as possible alternatives / options. What you decide to do and what other's prefer / think or look at is a matter of opinion and their own experiences.

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OH, sure, all that considerable effort on your website, extended articles, carefully chosen photos, comprehensive evaluations of your kit, and the only link you provide to an alternative is a link to the Azalia website.

J - I did think at the time that placing that link on it's own looked a bit conspicuous. Time of writing the post also a factor. There are tons of links to tons of truck options considered. Time spent all hours pondering through all kinds of things as many on here would vouch. Happy to add these as and when next updating. Granted not shown in that particular post and yes agreed may look like focused on this one but not the case and certainly not recommending for or against. Was there to highlight our sad plight ultimately I suppose of not wanting to swap LR yet try to solve sleeping/living in one vehicle as an option while retaining 4x4, LR - the existing feel. Something we had seen a couple of years ago and again cropped up on the truck search as an interesting concept.

PS - we always had a spare for caravan. Plus two more bought as soon as used. Not sure what you're issue here is J.

jmpc - chill out a bit chap!

People get info from various different places - sometimes people go down the wrong routes and make mistakes - does not mean that their opinion should not be considered!

I find there are plently of rewarding challenges to be had when overlanding that don´t involve tedious mechanical failer. I don´t see how that suggests I try to make my expeditions as éasy as possible´.

If you rely on vehicle failer for your challenges then you must tbe doing somehting wrong when traveling. At least, on the upside, you have made the perfect choice.

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Woah calm down there a bit! Not quite sure what pedestal you think you are on. I was saying in general - some people like having all the bells and whistles, comfortable vehicles and so on - just sayin that wasn't my cup of tea, especially when it comes to vehicle choice. I wasn't suggesting that because your vehicle might be more reliable than someone elses that therefore the overland trip does not become rewarding! I as have always said, each to their own!

And just to point out, on my last trip took my 1963 Land Rover had one failure (not classing a relay, bulb or a fuse as a failure though!)- which was a dodgy hub oil seal -- the part was sourced and fixed in half a morning. So if my expeditions had the sole challenge of vehicle failure then I sure had a crap time!

And while I´m having to correct ignorant statements or opinions

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So...what exactly has been said that is "ignorant"