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help advice for sickly disco

Discussion in 'Land Rover Discovery' started by DJB, Jan 1, 2012.

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  1. DJB

    DJB New Member

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    slightly off topic
    Does anyone know the correct term for the split sleeve used to protect the wireing in the engine bay ... just looking on ebay.. or a better product? mine has completely degraded.
     
  2. CharlesY

    CharlesY Well-Known Member

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    MAPLINS will sell miles of the stuff in glorious colours.

    Instead of the single slit, you could try the spiral slit kind.

    But whatever, it's easy to find in these electrical places.

    Keep an eye on WEAR areas, in case live wires rub through on earthed items. It does no harm to add anti-rub protection to these areas.
     
  3. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    you seem to complicate the issue with unecessary verbage ,we could all give sermons on how engine works,my post isnt agression just logic ,im just saying you have to check that connector and replace loom if necessary before you can say it isnt oil in electrics fault :doh:
     
  4. CharlesY

    CharlesY Well-Known Member

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    Possibly so James, but there's good logic and not-so-good, and complete logic and not-so-complete logic. I try to keep an open mind, as the unexpected has a habit of jumping out when I least expect it.

    One does NOT "HAVE TO check that connector and replace loom if necessary before you can say it isn't oil in electrics fault".
    That is only one of several ways to attack the problem.

    IN MY EXPERIENCE if it is an 'OIL in the loom problem', it has ALWAYS been cured by thoroughly cleaning the red plug and the ECU socket.

    If I have a Disco TD5 that develops that problem, and the problem goes away after cleaning only the red plug and ECU socket, does your logic not suggest the oil at that place was the problem, and that the oil that MUST still be at the under-head plug & socket cannot have been a problem and still isn't?

    Every time for me, no exception.
    But perhaps I have just been lucky.
    I tend to be a lucky person when fixing engines.
    Isn't that a strange thing?

    I have two TD5 Discos, and they both seep a little oil down to the red plug, but both are running fine even though the plug and socket under the head are pretty oily, which they MUST be because all the oil at the red plug has passed through the under-head connectors.

    I am not arguing James or saying you are wrong, I am simply saying what is my experience, and my ways of dealing with it. I am passing it on for what it is worth in the hope it might assist others. We learn by the experiences of others, and many of those experiences are mistakes.
    Believe me, I have made my fair share of mistakes in my time, but not usually the same mistake more than once.
     
  5. MrGrumpy

    MrGrumpy Member

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    Is it going to be handbags at dawn?
    Will it be on youtube?

    The Nation waits. :D
     
  6. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    @DJB ... IMO stick to your first ideea and insist on finding a tester.... u will be much closer to the answer if u see the stored fault codes and a live data check.... intermittent missfire is one of the hardest to diagnose "in blind". It could be the CKP sensor/plug/wiring or many other things among the oil contamination. As a matter of fact i saw interrupted injector harness aswell.
     
  7. walpoleer

    walpoleer New Member

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    I would have to agree with all....lol....Charlesy is correct, If you check the red plug and find oil, cleaning it is a must, not to would risk damage to the ECU, and if the fault disappears you have found your fault, It is the most common shorting route, so you can choose to clean the plug every week to keep on top of the oil condition.

    It shows you do have a problem, depending upon the amount you could choose to replace the offending loom in the rocker, this will give a much longer breathing space before it happens again. But as we all know when you replace this loom, you still have to clean the red plug every week till the oil is purged from the lower loom.

    James you must know this....Charles point is valid...why spend money to replace the injector loom when a clean of the red plug costs next to nothing and will tell you if Oil contamination is the route cause.

    as said I agree with most on this post...getting some good data to diagnose the alternative causes is a must, but you cant turn away from a possible cheap test.
     
  8. CharlesY

    CharlesY Well-Known Member

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    For reasons known to some on this forum, if it comes to a dawn showdown, I rate my chances highly.

    :mil4::mil44:

    Handbags will not be involved unless James brings his.

    What is youtube ?
     
  9. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    you may well have 2 discos and it may well cure yours,but oil in injector loom connector can cause misfire too, ive had it a couple of times where oil had reached loom connector but not ecu connector and in those cases changing injector loom cleaning connector cured it ,obviously i have also done plenty where ecu plug was contaminated,but seems stupid for such an easy check or fix not to rule it out ,it may be other things as some have suggested ,but i do do them regular and misfires can be caused lots of things one even low coolant level,but no engineer or mechanic would not check by cleaning it at least before anything else since evidence of oil has already been found
     
  10. DJB

    DJB New Member

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    Ok I have cleaned em ALL again... the metal to metal contacts on ALL the plugs and sockets are bright shiny and dry. The problem persists. :5bbanghead:

    I have ordered a new loom and new O rings and copper washers... front cam shaft seal and rocker cover gasket.

    Depression is starting to set in.. this car is vital to my family life.. Peace and harmony &#8230;

    Any other ideas, suggestions would be warmly received.

    D
     
  11. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    if all plugs/connectors aere clean now then get codes read ,cleared engine run and read again,using live data too,
     
  12. CharlesY

    CharlesY Well-Known Member

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    The whole fuel system is a bit ropey really.

    As a matter of interest, when was it last fitted with a new fuel filter?
    I buy cheap ones a dozen at a time and change them when I feel the urge.
    That alone can make a big difference if the filter coming off is choked. I would do this FIRST.

    Make absolutely sure that TWO o-rings (large and small) come off on the old filter, AND even if they do, still check there isn't an old SMALL o-ring trapped on the filterhead from the one before. They have a very bad habit of leaving the small o-rings behind, and this can stop the filter seating properly. It helps a lot to fill the new filter with clean fuel (or kerosene but not petrol) before fitting it. Doing this reduces the amount of AIR in the system.

    Have you decided what order to do these jobs in?

    At the moment I am not convinced it's a copper washers problem, because that is very often accompanied by severe starting-up difficulties and you don't say you have that.


    Have you tried separating the under-head socket and plug to give it a good clean as James says? You might get lucky there. If that did help, the new injector harness would improve things later, but you would still need to keep cleaning the red plug till the oil in the cables had run through.

    What a stupid system!
     
  13. xat44

    xat44 Active Member

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    i travel through south london most days and have hawkeye if needed.
     
  14. CharlesY

    CharlesY Well-Known Member

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    Now James,

    What will all that that tell us?
    Low fuel pressure? NO.
    Leaking injector washers? NO.
    Oil at cables or plugs? NO.
    Fuel filter choked? NO.
    Air in the system? NO.
    Defective fuel pump? NO.

    The diagnostic system is unable to detect any of these.

    If an injector itself is defective, it might indicate that, and indeed which one(s).

    But apart from that James, what could be learned from Nanocom or Hawkeye in this situation?

    It's a real question James, and you're the main man.
     
  15. blue beasty

    blue beasty Leaks an prone to bits dropping off Global Moderator

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    FFS If you two could learn to put your heads together you'd be fookin awesome :frusty:
     
  16. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    quite alot as most know ,but it isnt worth cluttering the thread with just replying to your issues
     
  17. CharlesY

    CharlesY Well-Known Member

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    Come on James, you need to tell us what Nanocom or Hawkeye can tell us in that situation. After all, you're the main man.

    If you don't correct my wicked and false allegations, people might even believe me when I say that Nanocom and Hawkeye are about as much use as a pork sausage in a Mosque when that is the problem in hand. There are many such problems that happen to our cars that the diagnostic devices simply can not recognise.

    Remember folks, I am asking
    Can Nanocom and Hawkeye tell us these faults?
    Low fuel pressure? NO.
    Leaking injector washers? NO.
    Oil at cables or plugs? NO.
    Fuel filter choked? NO.
    Air in the system? NO.
    Defective fuel pump? NO.

    The diagnostic system is unable to detect any of these, and these are among the most common faults.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  18. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    you fool whats the point? why would the fact a diagnostic kit cant tell you everything preclude its use,the engine runs using feed back from various sensors ,rather than guessing ,most things not all but most can be determined either by fault codes or live data,i presumed he had intermitent misfire , and is cheap ,easy to do ,after an obvious apparent fault has supposedly been ruled,out its the thing any sensible person would do ,like oil in loom rule out possibilities then your left with fewer to check or change parts for,lr never thought of you when they came up with testbook could have saved themselves real money , or you could ask on here like you have with poor starting on my td5 .if you want an argument i happy to start new thread on anything goes we could call it my names charlsey and im desperate to prove im a hero and jms a little boy if you want ,i dont know whats his fault ,without data or elimination no one does you could change parts or check ,check seems positive,open a thread on anything goes as as much as you intrigued me (can an old **** really behave this way )i do feel that this is a annoyance for others and not fair on op,i suppose you can boil a crank sensor for 3 minuets to determine its state
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  19. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    Mr. CharlesY, I dont want to intrude, i just want to help... i agree that for the common issues pointed by you there is no diagnostic protocoll. In this case if there will be no faults stored at least we'll know that it's something related to them. But there are many more common management or even injector issues which could have the same symptoms(like the missfire described in the first post)....and these will show up like stored faults or in live data...without MIL illumination

    E.G. : EGR missbehaviour, different sensors related issues(bad contact, wiring, faulty sensor) and the sensors which could cause this kind of missfire(even intermittent) are: MAF, Fuel temp. sensor, MAP/IAT, Crankshaft sensor.

    So, IMO plugging in a tester will at least reduce the diagnose area.

    My advice for everybody with strange missfire which is not pump, filter or oil ingress related is to plug in tester ASAP cos i saw two times in the last 2 years(i admit this is not very common) this kind of missfire generated by a bad earth to ECM which ended up with ruined ECM.... there is an earth rail near the ECU with 3 points, always check the middle one to be perfect !!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  20. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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