Hello - Site (and RR) Newbie with P38 problems!

Hello all - have lurked here for some time, but now decided to register so I can join in the fun of RR ownership (for "fun", read many hours under / over vehicle, skinning knuckles and swearing!)

I bought a '97 P38 DSE a few weeks ago - and it is not without issues! I already have a list of jobs to do and was wondering if anyone would like to share hints / tips? I have read through alot of threads / FAQs, etc, so am already armed with some knowledge. This is what I have so far:

1. EAS - works fine, rises up majestically as soon as engine is running, although rear tends to sink if left parked for more than a few minutes. Rear Air Springs are quite perished right at the bottom, so have a new pair waiting to go on.

2. HVAC - flow from the vents pretty weak, and sometimes intermittent, blower failed completely a couple of days ago. Have pulled out BOTH blower motors - RH one has intermittent dead armature windings (tested with jump-start battery and multimeter) and sometimes runs, but mostly doesn't. LH one fired up just fine when connected to the battery - investigated relays in fuse box, one of them (6, or 7?) appeared burned out. New relay on order, 2nd-hand blower motor sourced from fleaBay for £20 - awaiting delivery. EDIT: FIXED! See post #22

3. Oil seepage from engine oil cooler lines - common, from what I understand? The oil is finding its way all the way down to the front chassis crossmember, under the rads. Does this mean my oil cooler is shot also, or could it just be run-along from the pipes? From what I've read here, changing the pipes almost always means changing the cooler too.

4. Engine Vibes - worst at idle and 1500rpm, smooth as silk everywhere else. Vibration is constant, and felt through the whole of the car. Exhaust is not touching the body and engine & gearbox mounts look sound. Idle is not 'lumpy' and no mis-firing. At idle, I can see the gearbox filler tube vibrating and feel it through the engine with a hand on the cam cover - so looks like the whole engine is vibrating. I hear that the harmonic damper in the crank pulley can cause this? Although it is an expensive part (£249 from Island 4x4) for a 'trial' fit to see if the vibes go away. Anybody had any success curing such vibration by replacing said damper? EDIT - after the recent pub meet, everybody else's DSE vibes almost as much as mine! A classic case of 'they all do that, sir!'

5. Rhythmic 'squeak' when driving, worse on acceleration / de-celeration, in time with road speed. FIXED - knackered front propshaft rear UJ.

6. Gearbox slippage - (Auto) - slips when changing into, or out of, 4th gear. Engine will rev up for a second or two before the gear will engage, does the same when kicking down 4th to 3rd. All other gear changes smooth as silk, no unusual noise from gearbox, fluid checked - nicely pink, no crap on the dipstick, no burning smell - and changed, no difference. Anybody have knowledge of auto boxes? I'm thinking sticky solenoid or valve....?EDIT - tried a bottle of Lucas Tranny Fix, along with new fluid. No difference.

7. The 'Death Wander'! Most annoying thing of all, wanders all over the road. Was positively dangerous at first, then decided to change all 4 tyres for Falkens (had a hotch-potch of various brands and wear states when i bought it). Made a BIG difference, although still not particularly stable. Have been underneath with BIG crowbar, radius arm bushes not cracked, split or perished, but do seem very soft. Have a full set of poly bushes waiting to be fitted, also doing panhard rod bushes for good measure. I have a 6-ton press which should help. Steering wise, there is some play at the steering box but not much - translates to about 1/2 inch either way at the steering wheel. All ball joints (steering arm, track rod end, drag link) solid with no play whatsoever. Will report on what difference new bushes make.... (when I get round to it!) EDIT - Changed Radius Arm bushes (used Polys) - big improvement. Changed steering damper - further big improvement. Fitted 16" wheels - huge reduction in tramlining

All in all, i am quite happy with my P38 - it's my first RR and my first 4x4. Seems like I have my work cut out for me though, so any advice that can be given would be gladly received!

EDIT: Just to add, it has 130k on the clock, and a full service history up to 97k, so clearly spent most of it's life being looked after.

Regarding the 'death wander' - mine improved a lot just be ensuring the tyre pressures are good (as you have fitted new tyres I am sure you have done this) and then improved considerably again when I changed the front shock absorbers - one was leaking slightly which caused an MOT failure. These are cheap and quick to change, so might be worth a try.... I fitted OEM from Island 4x4.

Also, re the engine vibes, could it be the dreaded DMF? Mine vibrates a bit more than I would expect for a straight six, although not enough to really worry about (yet), so will watch the responses to this with interest!!


Cheers

Jerry

:welcome2:
Sounds like you will have your hands full over the next few weeks. Good news is that most of your problems sound like wear and tear issues which given the car is 15 years old isn't surprising. It will definetly be worth the effort to put in the hours. Might be worth checking the rear brake pipes for corrosion as not many survive that long.

Welcome to LZ

Sounds like lots of little niggles - general wear and tear really. We've just changed the airbags on mine - The rears looked, and were shagged, The fronts looked ok, but once we got them off it was clear that they were just as shagged as the rear. What I'm trying to say I guess is dont be too surprised if you end up having to change the fronts too

Best of luck!

Clarky130 said:

Hello all - have lurked here for some time, but now decided to register so I can join in the fun of RR ownership (for "fun", read many hours under / over vehicle, skinning knuckles and swearing!)

I bought a '97 P38 DSE a few weeks ago - and it is not without issues! I already have a list of jobs to do and was wondering if anyone would like to share hints / tips? I have read through alot of threads / FAQs, etc, so am already armed with some knowledge. This is what I have so far:

1. EAS - works fine, rises up majestically as soon as engine is running, although rear tends to sink if left parked for more than a few minutes. Rear Air Springs are quite perished right at the bottom, so have a new pair waiting to go on.

2. HVAC - flow from the vents pretty weak, and sometimes intermittent, blower failed completely a couple of days ago. Have pulled out BOTH blower motors - RH one has intermittent dead armature windings (tested with jump-start battery and multimeter) and sometimes runs, but mostly doesn't. LH one fired up just fine when connected to the battery - investigated relays in fuse box, one of them (6, or 7?) appeared burned out. New relay on order, 2nd-hand blower motor sourced from fleaBay for £20 - awaiting delivery.

3. Oil seepage from engine oil cooler lines - common, from what I understand? The oil is finding its way all the way down to the front chassis crossmember, under the rads. Does this mean my oil cooler is shot also, or could it just be run-along from the pipes? From what I've read here, changing the pipes almost always means changing the cooler too.

4. Engine Vibes - worst at idle and 1500rpm, smooth as silk everywhere else. Vibration is constant, and felt through the whole of the car. Exhaust is not touching the body and engine & gearbox mounts look sound. Idle is not 'lumpy' and no mis-firing. At idle, I can see the gearbox filler tube vibrating and feel it through the engine with a hand on the cam cover - so looks like the whole engine is vibrating. I hear that the harmonic damper in the crank pulley can cause this? Although it is an expensive part (£249 from Island 4x4) for a 'trial' fit to see if the vibes go away. Anybody had any success curing such vibration by replacing said damper?

5. Rhythmic 'squeak' when driving, worse on acceleration / de-celeration, in time with road speed. FIXED - knackered front propshaft rear UJ.

6. Gearbox slippage - (Auto) - slips when changing into, or out of, 4th gear. Engine will rev up for a second or two before the gear will engage, does the same when kicking down 4th to 3rd. All other gear changes smooth as silk, no unusual noise from gearbox, fluid checked - nicely pink, no crap on the dipstick, no burning smell - and changed, no difference. Anybody have knowledge of auto boxes? I'm thinking sticky solenoid or valve....?

7. The 'Death Wander'! Most annoying thing of all, wanders all over the road. Was positively dangerous at first, then decided to change all 4 tyres for Falkens (had a hotch-potch of various brands and wear states when i bought it). Made a BIG difference, although still not particularly stable. Have been underneath with BIG crowbar, radius arm bushes not cracked, split or perished, but do seem very soft. Have a full set of poly bushes waiting to be fitted, also doing panhard rod bushes for good measure. I have a 6-ton press which should help. Steering wise, there is some play at the steering box but not much - translates to about 1/2 inch either way at the steering wheel. All ball joints (steering arm, track rod end, drag link) solid with no play whatsoever. Will report on what difference new bushes make.... (when I get round to it!)

All in all, i am quite happy with my P38 - it's my first RR and my first 4x4. Seems like I have my work cut out for me though, so any advice that can be given would be gladly received!

EDIT: Just to add, it has 130k on the clock, and a full service history up to 97k, so clearly spent most of it's life being looked after.

Click to expand...

:welcome2:

Replace all 4 airbags as the fronts will be shot and you will end up needing to sort the compressor if it is working too hard feeding leaks.

Engine vibes, take the crank damper off, if it's shot it will be obvious.

Autobox slippage, try Lucas Transmission fix, you can find it on Ebay, pretty much fixed mine.

As for the wander, what diameter wheels are you running? They are best on 16", OK on 18", trouble on anything bigger. I run 18" Hurricanes with Goodyear Wranglers. Unloaded I run the rears at 28psi same as the fronts, if I up them to the recomended pressure it wanders unless it's loaded. Changing the drag link made a big difference to mine, play was infantessimal in the one I removed. Poly bushes are not recomended.

if you have found a burned relay in the engine compartment fusebox you will allmost definately require a new engine compartment fusebox common failing google it should find plenty about repair or replacement.
yes changing oil cooler pipes allmost certainly will req a cooler as well when removing the pipes takes the threads of the cooler when undoing the pipes.
gearbox change problems first thing to do is an oil and filter change filters available from island4x4 cheap enough would recommend get it hot drop the oil refill get it hot drop oil and replace the filter and refill can make the world of difference!

oh and to add crankshaft damper if it is shot i fitted one from a bmw car to my old dse when it was knackered found a good 2nd hand one in a local scrapyard cost £10!
and jerry cant be dmf his in an auto not manual!!!
data i ran polybushes on my old dse every single bush in the front was changed to polybushes and i had no problems ride was not affected in anyway despite what some might say i had no problems whatsoever!

6704nathan said:

jerry cant be dmf his in an auto not manual!!!

Click to expand...

Doh! Despite a whole paragraph describing issues with his auto box I still had it in my head that it was a manual.... must stop myself posting before I have had enough coffee......

Welcome have to agree with all that's posted before just changed my fuse box and air springs not difficult and doesn't take long hope you have somewhere warm to work though !

Sadly not, Scotchgit! Just have to wait for a dry / not too cold window in the weather! Unfortunately they're not so forthcoming at this time of year! I MISS Las Vegas.... (lived there for 4 years, and had a triple-width garage too..:-( )

Thanks for all the info guys. Re Airbags... The fronts look CONSIDERABLY newer than the rear... I guessed they had been recently changed, they looked so new, plus the front doesn't drop when it's parked (except to self-level with the rear), so might get away with that.

Datatek, how easy a job is getting the damper pulley off? Reading RAVE, it seems like it's a case of Belts off, water pump pulley off, undo 6 bolts, pull it off. RAVE mentions removing the radiator, not sure if that would be necessary. I'm planning to pull the intercooler to flush it, oil cooler to replace it and pipes, and to ditch the viscous fan altogether (need to PM you my email for your aircon fan mod), so may tackle all that in one go whilst I have the slam panel etc out.

crank pulley is easy enough remove aux belt cant see why water pump pulley needs to come off ring of outer bolts removed and lever off the crank have done it in situ before but if you are doing the work you have mentioned would be a lot easier to do with rad out.

Is there a way of testing it in-situ, or is it a case of replace and hope....?

Cheers

Jerry

Have found this damper, which says it fits all other variants of this engine. Any reason why this wouldn't fit my DSE?

BMW 3 5 7 Vauxhall Omega Crankshaft Pulley

you will easily see if its shagged when removed i guess you could get underneath and watch it while the engine is running to see if it wobbles excessively but with it removed you will be able to see as if you were to imagine the pulley in three sections the inner that the bolts go through the middle which is bonded rubber and an outer where the belts run on.
the rubber will overtime split etc causing vibration and will be obvious to see.
the pulley i put on mine came from a 525tds around the same year so according to that listing it should fit but as i cant see from the picture a side view i cant say 100% it is right as i cant see where the belts go if they look the right width etc
may be worth trying a local motor factors such as partco or camberely order it have a look if its right when it arrives if its not return it

just thought i would add not all are bonded rubber but my old one was!

just been having a look around and yes i would say that is the right one, on my old one as i said the rubber was shagged but also the kind of sprung loaded part could be knackered hard to explain but obvious when removed

I've used camberley's before and they've always been pretty good so may give that a shot. Just wondering why the huge price difference between the BMW item and the LR one? It's not as if BMW parts are cheap! (I've owned several).

I've already had a chance to look at the pulley with the engine running - it looks rock steady, no wobbles at all, although I guess it would have to be totally fooked to be wobbling!

Did yours have the same symptoms as mine, and did the new pulley cure it?

if it is rock steady then i doubt its the problem, mine wobbled all over the place was quite surprised it hadnt fallen off but my old dse did have 186,000m on it!
land rover parts are silly money genuine and range rovers are even worse! sometimes they can surprise you though engine compartment fuse box was from my local dealer with trade discount was a little over £100 better than my 1st choice supplier island4x4 by a long way!
obviously the part you had on your listing was for a pattern one bet a genuine bmw one would be a hell of a lot more!

I would do all the airbags, then you are sure, I've been caught out like that before, and replace the fusebox, just echoing others. I had the death wander, and I echo Datatek, and others. Good luck

Just ordered a bottle of Lucas Transmission Fix. Will post results when able.