Headlights

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ratty said:
Are you saying that VOSA are now saying that HIDS don't have to be 'E' marked, be self levelling nor have washers on a pre 2012 vehicle?:confused::confused::confused:
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I read it as vehicles with unmarked HIDS fitted before 2012 may keep them, but from 2012 all vehicles subsequently fitted with HIDS must be "E" marked.
 
ratty said:
As the main beam must be accompanied by the dipped beam that's defenders and series vehicles buggered.
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Although quite a few of the 110's have self levelling suspension, so if you fitted an E marked kit, and rigged up a headlamp washer system, a simple wiring adjustment to keep dipped on with main, and you would be complying with the law. If you don't have self levelkling suspension, then things are a bit trickier.
 
ratty said:
Are you saying that VOSA are now saying that HIDS don't have to be 'E' marked, be self levelling nor have washers on a pre 2012 vehicle?:confused::confused::confused:
Click to expand...

The units still have to be E marked but there have been many conversions available that are E marked, HiD lights need a different reflector as the bulb has a different filament compared to a normal one, they don't however have to have self levelling or washers as this was not a legal requirement in the UK prior to the new EU regulations and therefore these legal conversions have been allowed. It is now illegal to fit aftermarket lights without washers or levellers but as there is no way to tell when a conversion was done all pre 2012 vehicles have been made exempt of this change in the laws. People can search the Internet all they want and they will find the EU rules and opinions and all sorts of other crap but the one manual that matters is the VT's testers manual which explains if HiD's are fitted and a beam pattern is attained then it is a pass and advise. This is the law, this was explained first hand by the chief VOSA trainer at a specific conference to deal with the confusion on these rule changes....
 
Jongould said:
The units still have to be E marked but there have been many conversions available that are E marked, HiD lights need a different reflector a the bulb has a different filament compared to a normal one, they don't however have to haw awl levelling or washers as this was not a legal requirement in the UK prior to the new EU regulations and therefore these legal conversions have been allowed. It is now illegal to fit aftermarket lights without washers or levellers but as there is no way to tell when a conversion was done all pre 2012 vehicles have been made exempt of this change in the laws. You can search the Internet all you want and you will find the EU rules and opinions and all sorts of other crap but the one manual that matters is the VT's testers manual which explains if HiD's are fitted and a beam pattern is attained then it is a pass and advise. This is the law, this was explained first hand by the chief VOSA trainer at a specific conference to deal with the confusion on these rule changes....
Click to expand...
Sorry, but that is bollocks. If a vehicle is not compliant with all ECE regulations, then it is breaking the law. Also this document from the DfT 595099 EYE BOLT | shop | www.lrseries.com | L. R. Series is dated from 2010 so it was illegal in 2010 to have HID lights fitted without washer and self levellers. so this legislation pre dates the 2012 rules you keep spouting. The MOT test is a basic test of roadworthyness at the time of the test and does not cover all ECE regulations, nor does it test whether or not a vehicle is fully type approved. The simple fact is that if a vehicle that does not comply is stopped and inspected, then the driver may find themselves liable to prosecution. the fact that the law is not always enforced does not mean the the law does not apply.
 
martin1512 said:
Sorry, but that is bollocks. If a vehicle is not compliant with all ECE regulations, then it is breaking the law. Also this document from the DfT 595099 EYE BOLT | shop | www.lrseries.com | L. R. Series is dated from 2010 so it was illegal in 2010 to have HID lights fitted without washer and self levellers. so this legislation pre dates the 2012 rules you keep spouting. The MOT test is a basic test of roadworthyness at the time of the test and does not cover all ECE regulations, nor does it test whether or not a vehicle is fully type approved. The simple fact is that if a vehicle that does not comply is stopped and inspected, then the driver may find themselves liable to prosecution. the fact that the law is not always enforced does not mean the the law does not apply.
Click to expand...

Ok, let me explain this one last time. Although the regulations forced upon us by the EU states that you need washers and levellers it was decided that due to the number of kits legally sold in the UK that grace would be given to all pre MOT regulation date change of 2012. I am not disagreeing that it is illegal to have HiD's fitted without these systems I am trying to explain that there is no way to tell if the conversion was done before the law changed so as has always been the way they have enforced a cut off date, this time being April 2012. This is similar to side repeaters and seatbelts, they are legal requirements but you don't get them on some vehicles.

I don't care what links you pull from the web this is the way the law was introduced into the UK to allow for all the legal kits that were purchased. If you do not wish to believe the word of the owner of a VOSA approved test centre who goes out his way to ensure compliance and who's job it is to interpret and understand this exact law as it was intended and who has received training and assistance from the governing body that enforces this law then that's your call. I will take the way VOSA explained it over your judgement any day...
 
martin1512 said:
Sorry, but that is bollocks. If a vehicle is not compliant with all ECE regulations, then it is breaking the law. Also this document from the DfT 595099 EYE BOLT | shop | www.lrseries.com | L. R. Series is dated from 2010 so it was illegal in 2010 to have HID lights fitted without washer and self levellers. so this legislation pre dates the 2012 rules you keep spouting. The MOT test is a basic test of roadworthyness at the time of the test and does not cover all ECE regulations, nor does it test whether or not a vehicle is fully type approved. The simple fact is that if a vehicle that does not comply is stopped and inspected, then the driver may find themselves liable to prosecution. the fact that the law is not always enforced does not mean the the law does not apply.
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I have to admit that reading through this thread, martin1512 does actually provide come citations and references when making statements.

I'm yet to see a single piece of documentation provided by Jongould short of hear-say.

As a layman, matrin1512's argument is much more convincing.
 
DISCOVERY1-DAZ said:
These ones?
Xenon HID Headlight Conversation Kit- H7 6000k- 2 Years Warranty-(12) | eBay

They a straight fit into a defender??

Daz
Click to expand...

They will fit straight in mate,

but you need to feed the wiring and connectors through the lamp bowl, I use a big stepped drill bit to make a hole and put a bit of rubber edging strip around the hole to prevent the wires chaffing.

As wiltshire said... really its up to the end user. Ive never had any issues with anyone pulling me in ALL my vehicles which have HIDs fitted. If anyone has said anything its been positive... even the MOT testers have been impressed. And even a police biker who pulled me liked them and wanted me to supply a set for his personal bimmer!

They can cause a few lights to flash up on modern cars fitted with canbus wiring but there are easy ways around that.
 
vilguy said:
They will fit straight in mate,

but you need to feed the wiring and connectors through the lamp bowl, I use a big stepped drill bit to make a hole and put a bit of rubber edging strip around the hole to prevent the wires chaffing.

As wiltshire said... really its up to the end user. Ive never had any issues with anyone pulling me in ALL my vehicles which have HIDs fitted. If anyone has said anything its been positive... even the MOT testers have been impressed. And even a police biker who pulled me liked them and wanted me to supply a set for his personal bimmer!

They can cause a few lights to flash up on modern cars fitted with canbus wiring but there are easy ways around that.
Click to expand...
But aren't defenders fitted with dual filament bulbs?
How do you get round that?

Daz
 
Thanks for your help. I will try and get round ones. I have been told about the crystal clear ones, any ideas?
 
Jongould said:
Ok, let me explain this one last time. Although the regulations forced upon us by the EU states that you need washers and levellers it was decided that due to the number of kits legally sold in the UK that grace would be given to all pre MOT regulation date change of 2012. I am not disagreeing that it is illegal to have HiD's fitted without these systems I am trying to explain that there is no way to tell if the conversion was done before the law changed so as has always been the way they have enforced a cut off date, this time being April 2012. This is similar to side repeaters and seatbelts, they are legal requirements but you don't get them on some vehicles.

I don't care what links you pull from the web this is the way the law was introduced into the UK to allow for all the legal kits that were purchased. If you do not wish to believe the word of the owner of a VOSA approved test centre who goes out his way to ensure compliance and who's job it is to interpret and understand this exact law as it was intended and who has received training and assistance from the governing body that enforces this law then that's your call. I will take the way VOSA explained it over your judgement any day...
Click to expand...

But surely what Martin is saying is that whether or not an MOT tester passes them is irrelevant. Whilst they are illegal as far as vehicle construction regulations are concerned you can still be prosecuted.
 
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DISCOVERY1-DAZ said:
But aren't defenders fitted with dual filament bulbs?
How do you get round that?

Daz
Click to expand...


you can use either an H4-2 setup which uses an HID unit for the dipped beam and a normal halogen for main beam intergrated into the same unit. Or an H4-3 setup uses a single HID unit which is on a solenoid and moves the bulb into 2 different positions for high and low. I use H4-3 as i dont like the H4-2 bulbs.

The final alternative is an h4-4 setup...these are not very common... they use 2 hid tubes on the one bulb and each has its own ballast. This means you need 4 ballasts. Chuffin bright!!! but also very expensive. Also the high beams will take time to warm up initially so the first time you use them there will be a 3-4 second delay.

There are no delays with h4-3 kits

There are moving parts in the bulbs with this though and they sometimes do fail... something to be aware of.
 
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