Head Gasket Changing Issues

3.9 Litre EFI, Having problems getting the Injection cluster off the top,
all the bolts have been removed (12 bolts). But the injection system will
not budge, am I missing something ?

Cheers,


Richy.

"Subscription" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 3.9 Litre EFI, Having problems getting the Injection cluster off the top,
> all the bolts have been removed (12 bolts). But the injection system will
> not budge, am I missing something ?

You are if you're trying to remove the injectors from the manifold, there's
no need. Simply remove upper part of manifold (plenum chamber), remove inlet
manifold bolts and remove manifold complete with injection gear.
Get a GOOD 6-point hex (not bi-hex) socket (16mm) for the head bolts and be
careful with the rear outers, they are awkward in-situ. If the head bolts
are the flanged type (integral washer) then they are stretch bolts and must
be replaced. I always fit either the earlier non-stretch type or studs.
Badger.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> 3.9 Litre EFI, Having problems getting the Injection cluster off the top,
> all the bolts have been removed (12 bolts). But the injection system will
> not budge, am I missing something ?
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Richy.
>
>
>
A bigger hammer probably
--
Alex Threlfall
Cyberprog New Media
www.cyberprog.net
tel - 0870 446 0789
fax - 0870 446 1789

On or around Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:35:21 -0000, "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Subscription" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> 3.9 Litre EFI, Having problems getting the Injection cluster off the top,
>> all the bolts have been removed (12 bolts). But the injection system will
>> not budge, am I missing something ?
>
>You are if you're trying to remove the injectors from the manifold, there's
>no need. Simply remove upper part of manifold (plenum chamber), remove inlet
>manifold bolts and remove manifold complete with injection gear.
>Get a GOOD 6-point hex (not bi-hex) socket (16mm) for the head bolts and be
>careful with the rear outers, they are awkward in-situ. If the head bolts
>are the flanged type (integral washer) then they are stretch bolts and must
>be replaced. I always fit either the earlier non-stretch type or studs.
>Badger.

Have to say that most of them will be 5/8" bolts, not 16mm. 16mm will fit
but not as well as 5/8"

I rather imagine that the Thor engine got updated, but I wouldn't bet. all
the earlier V8s I've seen use UNC or UNF bolts.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:35:21 -0000, "Badger"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >"Subscription" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> 3.9 Litre EFI, Having problems getting the Injection cluster off the
top,
> >> all the bolts have been removed (12 bolts). But the injection system
will
> >> not budge, am I missing something ?
> >
> >You are if you're trying to remove the injectors from the manifold,
there's
> >no need. Simply remove upper part of manifold (plenum chamber), remove
inlet
> >manifold bolts and remove manifold complete with injection gear.
> >Get a GOOD 6-point hex (not bi-hex) socket (16mm) for the head bolts and
be
> >careful with the rear outers, they are awkward in-situ. If the head bolts
> >are the flanged type (integral washer) then they are stretch bolts and
must
> >be replaced. I always fit either the earlier non-stretch type or studs.
> >Badger.
>
> Have to say that most of them will be 5/8" bolts, not 16mm. 16mm will fit
> but not as well as 5/8"
>
> I rather imagine that the Thor engine got updated, but I wouldn't bet.
all
> the earlier V8s I've seen use UNC or UNF bolts.

5/8 af 6-point sockets are pretty scarce in my experience Austin, 16mm is a
perfect fit, hence why I quoted that size.
BTW, all metric headed bolts that screw into the heads or block on a thor
engine are still UNC threads!!!
Badger.

On or around Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:00:18 -0000, "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:35:21 -0000, "Badger"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >
>> >"Subscription" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> 3.9 Litre EFI, Having problems getting the Injection cluster off the
>top,
>> >> all the bolts have been removed (12 bolts). But the injection system
>will
>> >> not budge, am I missing something ?
>> >
>> >You are if you're trying to remove the injectors from the manifold,
>there's
>> >no need. Simply remove upper part of manifold (plenum chamber), remove
>inlet
>> >manifold bolts and remove manifold complete with injection gear.
>> >Get a GOOD 6-point hex (not bi-hex) socket (16mm) for the head bolts and
>be
>> >careful with the rear outers, they are awkward in-situ. If the head bolts
>> >are the flanged type (integral washer) then they are stretch bolts and
>must
>> >be replaced. I always fit either the earlier non-stretch type or studs.
>> >Badger.
>>
>> Have to say that most of them will be 5/8" bolts, not 16mm. 16mm will fit
>> but not as well as 5/8"
>>
>> I rather imagine that the Thor engine got updated, but I wouldn't bet.
>all
>> the earlier V8s I've seen use UNC or UNF bolts.
>
>5/8 af 6-point sockets are pretty scarce in my experience Austin, 16mm is a
>perfect fit, hence why I quoted that size.
>BTW, all metric headed bolts that screw into the heads or block on a thor
>engine are still UNC threads!!!

hehe. 16mm is bigger than 5/8", but on a single hex you'll get away wit it
as the difference is not too much, about 4 thou or so.

I've got a set of imperial a/f impact sockets, although I've had 'em some
time.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Remember that to change your mind and follow him who sets you right
is to be none the less free than you were before."
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121-180), from Meditations, VIII.16

"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:35:21 -0000, "Badger"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >
>> >"Subscription" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> 3.9 Litre EFI, Having problems getting the Injection cluster off the
> top,
>> >> all the bolts have been removed (12 bolts). But the injection system
> will
>> >> not budge, am I missing something ?
>> >
>> >You are if you're trying to remove the injectors from the manifold,
> there's
>> >no need. Simply remove upper part of manifold (plenum chamber), remove
> inlet
>> >manifold bolts and remove manifold complete with injection gear.
>> >Get a GOOD 6-point hex (not bi-hex) socket (16mm) for the head bolts and
> be
>> >careful with the rear outers, they are awkward in-situ. If the head
>> >bolts
>> >are the flanged type (integral washer) then they are stretch bolts and
> must
>> >be replaced. I always fit either the earlier non-stretch type or studs.
>> >Badger.
>>
>> Have to say that most of them will be 5/8" bolts, not 16mm. 16mm will
>> fit
>> but not as well as 5/8"
>>
>> I rather imagine that the Thor engine got updated, but I wouldn't bet.
> all
>> the earlier V8s I've seen use UNC or UNF bolts.
>
> 5/8 af 6-point sockets are pretty scarce in my experience Austin, 16mm is
> a
> perfect fit, hence why I quoted that size.
> BTW, all metric headed bolts that screw into the heads or block on a thor
> engine are still UNC threads!!!
> Badger.
>
I you need an odd proper AF true hex socket
www.silverlinetools.com/index.html?code=282999 they do up to the very hard
to get unless you win the lottery 1 .3/16 " (200tdi cranshaft pulley bolt)
oddly not listed on the website and of course Machine Mart if you want a set
on a rail
Derek

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> hehe. 16mm is bigger than 5/8", but on a single hex you'll get away wit
it
> as the difference is not too much, about 4 thou or so.

Yep, and the tolerance on *most* modern spanners/sockets is probably a lot
more than 0.004". I've been rebuilding V8 engines for over 15 years now, and
I've rounded off head bolts whilst trying to undo them with the correct
imperial socket (bi-hex, admittedly), but the 16mm hex has ALWAYS got them
undone for me without any issues.
Badger.

Badger <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>> hehe. 16mm is bigger than 5/8", but on a single hex you'll get away
>> wit it as the difference is not too much, about 4 thou or so.
>
> Yep, and the tolerance on *most* modern spanners/sockets is probably
> a lot more than 0.004". I've been rebuilding V8 engines for over 15
> years now, and I've rounded off head bolts whilst trying to undo them
> with the correct imperial socket (bi-hex, admittedly), but the 16mm
> hex has ALWAYS got them undone for me without any issues.
> Badger.

At the risk of showing my arse and not having had the pleasure of many hex
bolts could someone please explain the difference between bi-hex and single
hex..... I've now got a smutty vision ;-)

Lee D

"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Badger <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> > "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>>
> >> hehe. 16mm is bigger than 5/8", but on a single hex you'll get away
> >> wit it as the difference is not too much, about 4 thou or so.
> >
> > Yep, and the tolerance on *most* modern spanners/sockets is probably
> > a lot more than 0.004". I've been rebuilding V8 engines for over 15
> > years now, and I've rounded off head bolts whilst trying to undo them
> > with the correct imperial socket (bi-hex, admittedly), but the 16mm
> > hex has ALWAYS got them undone for me without any issues.
> > Badger.
>
> At the risk of showing my arse and not having had the pleasure of many hex
> bolts could someone please explain the difference between bi-hex and
single
> hex..... I've now got a smutty vision ;-)

Single hex sockets are just that Lee, a single hexagonal (6-sided) socket
that fits a hexagonal shaped nut.
Bi-hex is two hexagons superimposed with a 30 degree twist, to give a
12-pointed shape, the shape of most normal sockets. Bi-hex bolts (commonly
used in the aviation industry) are the same, basically a 12-pointed nut.
Badger.

Badger <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>> At the risk of showing my arse and not having had the pleasure of
>> many hex bolts could someone please explain the difference between
>> bi-hex and single hex..... I've now got a smutty vision ;-)
>
> Single hex sockets are just that Lee, a single hexagonal (6-sided)
> socket that fits a hexagonal shaped nut.
> Bi-hex is two hexagons superimposed with a 30 degree twist, to give a
> 12-pointed shape, the shape of most normal sockets. Bi-hex bolts
> (commonly used in the aviation industry) are the same, basically a
> 12-pointed nut. Badger.

Cheers! I suspected it would be painfully simple but as usual my mind has
over complicated it

On or around Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:00:26 -0000, "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Single hex sockets are just that Lee, a single hexagonal (6-sided) socket
>that fits a hexagonal shaped nut.
>Bi-hex is two hexagons superimposed with a 30 degree twist, to give a
>12-pointed shape, the shape of most normal sockets. Bi-hex bolts (commonly
>used in the aviation industry) are the same, basically a 12-pointed nut.

like those buggers on the later LR calipers. Only thing I have against 'em
is the fact that they reduce the size considerably compared to a normal
hex-head bolt. They're not as bad as those ones with a reduced-size hex
head, though, which are an abomination.

oh, and BTW - you can get small spark plug sockets in single-hex and 5/8",
and being deep ones they're well-suited to V8 head bolts. You need a decent
quality one though, not rubbish.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25

On or around Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:22:35 GMT, "Derek"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>>
>I you need an odd proper AF true hex socket
>www.silverlinetools.com/index.html?code=282999 they do up to the very hard
>to get unless you win the lottery 1 .3/16 " (200tdi cranshaft pulley bolt)
>oddly not listed on the website and of course Machine Mart if you want a set
>on a rail

ISTR that bolt is 27mm, same as the later wheelnuts.

27mm A/F diesel injector socket fits it.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:06:22 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Badger <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>>> At the risk of showing my arse and not having had the pleasure of
>>> many hex bolts could someone please explain the difference between
>>> bi-hex and single hex..... I've now got a smutty vision ;-)
>>
>> Single hex sockets are just that Lee, a single hexagonal (6-sided)
>> socket that fits a hexagonal shaped nut.
>> Bi-hex is two hexagons superimposed with a 30 degree twist, to give a
>> 12-pointed shape, the shape of most normal sockets. Bi-hex bolts
>> (commonly used in the aviation industry) are the same, basically a
>> 12-pointed nut. Badger.
>
>Cheers! I suspected it would be painfully simple but as usual my mind has
>over complicated it

The 6 point ones are more expensive though. I think all the stuff i
have (either inherited or from halfords/MM) is 12 point.

On or around Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:00:16 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On or around Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:22:35 GMT, "Derek"
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>>
>>I you need an odd proper AF true hex socket
>>www.silverlinetools.com/index.html?code=282999 they do up to the very hard
>>to get unless you win the lottery 1 .3/16 " (200tdi cranshaft pulley bolt)
>>oddly not listed on the website and of course Machine Mart if you want a set
>>on a rail
>
>ISTR that bolt is 27mm, same as the later wheelnuts.
>
>27mm A/F diesel injector socket fits it.

Just thought. I'm talking about a 300TDi, not a 200.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.