HDC light and F4

Hi

I had the constant single yellow HDC! on ... I had the codes read and there were no codes at all - the guy reset the codes anyway and on the next start up the light went out, maybe that is all you need to do.

Brack said:

Hi

I had the constant single yellow HDC! on ... I had the codes read and there were no codes at all - the guy reset the codes anyway and on the next start up the light went out, maybe that is all you need to do.

Click to expand...

Thank you. I found your post about this couple of days ago. I thought that I am just not that lucky! My OBD scanner has just about every manufacturer to choose from, .....except LR! So in order to read it, I choose Jaguar! That gave me the P1717 when the CEL came on, and I succesfully erased it. I might stop by Autozone tomorrow, and ask them to pull the codes, and erase them even if they don't show.

And here are my LRs being washed! I am about to order the "British" plate for the big one, which I call "Rhino". Cops get fits when they see this, but I am too old to care!

They look nice together ..love the HIPPO plate

If by any chance the light goes out like mine did ...and F4 happens again (limp mode)..if the hdc returns at the same time then you will know they are related ...good luck

Wife just called. Hippo went to F4 limp mode three times, as she was driving to the next city to do something (she pulls over, turn it off, restart, and back to normal). F4 never happens in the morning (low 50s), but always on the way home in the afternoon (low 90s). DEFINITELY temperature related.
Anxiously waiting to open the gearbox tomorrow! I will pay special attention to the tranny cooler, and the fluid level. I'll also replace the low clutch solenoid, and filter.
Will report the findings.

EDIT: Wife came home and reports that F4 flashing is somehow connected with engaging the reverse! Anyone knows anything about it?

If it is related to selecting reverse. That helps identify the problem. Sadly I'm not an auto expert. There are several forum members that are though. I'm sure they will be able to point you in the rite direction.
I'm looking into the pedal do dad now.

Edit. The pedal position sensor (or APP LR call it) looks to have 6 wires. Two are earths. Two are inputs from the ECU. Two are returns to the ECU.
The inclusion of a position switch is unlikely.
Pedal at rest is likely sensed by the APP, information is then passed to the ABS ECU, via the engine ECU.

Thank you all for your help. I am off to service the tranny. Doing it at the friends shop on the hoist (way easier than on the floor). I'll stick strictly to "Hippo's" advices, pictures, and diagrams that he posted on this forum. I'll try to locate Texaco N402 fluid locally, and if not available, I'll stick Dextron 2 in it, drive for a week, and replace with Texaco.

At the same time, I'll take the low clutch solenoid out of the spare tranny, and replace it. While I'm at it, I'll change the engine oil too, going with Castrol full synthetic that I'm running in the L322.

Hippo threw the CEL again last night, showing P1717 again. After I change the solenoid/fluids, I'll erase the codes, and hope for the best.

Sounds like a viable plan?

I've tried looking up P1717. It's coming up with an inductive pickup.
Problem is, that is a generic code not the actual code for the Freelander.
There are several inductive pickups on the Jatco (Freelander's gearbox).
It's well worth checking the 2 barrel shaped connectors just above the sump pan. There are also a couple of inductive pickups in the gear selector housing.
Dexron ll is fine in the short term. I use Carlube ATF-U which is a full synthetic Dexron ll type fluid.

Nodge68 said:

I've tried looking up P1717. It's coming up with an inductive pickup.
Problem is, that is a generic code not the actual code for the Freelander.
There are several inductive pickups on the Jatco (Freelander's gearbox).
It's well worth checking the 2 barrel shaped connectors just above the sump pan. There are also a couple of inductive pickups in the gear selector housing.
Dexron ll is fine in the short term. I use Carlube ATF-U which is a full synthetic Dexron ll type fluid.

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In this thread on page one, there is a link to all Freelander codes, and P1717 IS a Hippo code "low clutch timing solenoid". Remedy? Either electical connection to the ground (Earth), or power. Check electical connections, and/or replace the solenoid.

Well I just came home. Managed to change oil in the engine (Castrol Edge Titanium), and not much else. Hippo is throwing FITS! Outside temp is in the 90s, and he doesn't like it. Threw another code (P1718), CEL on, limp mode (restarting doesn't help much!). When I restart, is OK for one gear cycle, and then it goes back to F4 (basically starting, and sticking to the 4th gear). Since the friend had a family emergency, and had to lock up the shop, I took Hippo to the recommended Indy in this area. The guy is supposed to be a whiz in rebuilding trannys, and he drove the poor Hippo to test it.

He thinks that some electrical connectors are either faulty, damaged, or missed on reassembly. If not that, .....the solenoids (low clutch timing, and timing retard)! Wants to see Hippo on Monday morning, and will give it his full attention (with me observing!).

And that's about it. There is no way I can get under the car in this heat, and I'm tired of asking for favors from people that have hoists. I'll have a pro take a stab at it, and we'll see what happens. It's only money after all.

That still leaves amber Hippo! warning to sort out, and since it was determined (in this thread) that US edittion doesn't have the switch on the gas pedal,......I'm pretty lost! I need to read through ALL HDC posts AGAIN, and come up with a plan.

I'm thinking that the transmission faults and I HDC light could be connected. The barrel connectors are the place to start.

Make sure yer garage man knows there's a specific way to check the level of the auto gearbox fluid. The nut on the rear is not the level plug.

Barrel connectors:


DSC01080 PnqqrjE

Danielsand said:

...
There is a black plastic box behind the fuse panel on the dash. That box has a sticker that says:
YWC000492
27VT CCU
53070133D
483314
03/02
>ABS<
, and the whole bunch of wires go to it (three connectors). The box also plugs into the back of the fuse pannel. Is this the ABS control module/computer, or whatever?
...

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This is the security computer. It does a lot more than just the security. Or at least it knows the state of loads of stuff like the doors, wipers, tailgate/window etc when I look at it with me hawkeye.

Thank you Gentlemen. I stole the pics Hippo posted a while ago, with check, drain, and fill clearly marked. Got the pics on my phone, and since I was going to do it myself, I wanted to make sure I don't take the wrong bolt out. On Monday, I'll be under the car with the tech.

I also think that HDC! and F4 are somehow connected, and the electrical makes the most sense. I unplugged the barrels, looked at them, and they seem clean and undamaged. I plugged them back, took the leads off the battery, and crossed them for about an hour. All codes were gone, but the HDC! is still on.

Drove it only into the garage (100 yards), with no warnings. I'll take it to town today, and see what happens.

"Security computer"!? Now it makes sense, when I replaced this, my remote didn't work, and I was stumpped, because there is >ABS< stamped on the box. I couldn't figure it out why would the ABS computer have anything to do with door locks, and alarm.

Slowly but surely, I am getting under the skin of this little beast.

The saga continues!

So,......I took wife's Hippo to the "transmission whiz" recommended in this area. I was there bright and early (8AM), and he told me to leave it all day! They were nice enough to give me a ride back to the ranch.

At about 2PM, I was getting nervous for not hearing from them, so I drove there in one of my other vehicles. Turns out Hippo is on the hoist! Good news,....they are working on it! Well,......the "whiz" was under it, with a flashlight, and confessed that he doesn't have a clue what's wrong with the thing!! His computer won't read it, tranny works as it should, and pulled three codes from the car: P1472, P1717, and P1719! CEL is on, and the amber Hippo!

He thinks there is a wire/contact that sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't. Hard to trace, when your computer can't see it. Long story short,....there is NOTHING he can do, and there is no charge. He recommended ANOTHER "whiz" in a different city!

So I called the guy who helpped me swapping the engines, and he came over to drive the car home. He hopped in, Hippo took off like a bat out of hell, and he told me that there is NO lights, no F4, shifts as it should, and I am basically full of it! Hippo did not want to go out of F4 for me this morning, and accelerated in the fourth gear "like a double decker bus"!

He also suggested to have the thing scanned, and reprogramed if needed, and he recommended ANOTHER guy who is reflashing/reprogramming "every car on the planet". The guy confirmed that he CAN do it, and Hippo is over there now!

At this point, I am REALLY interested what will this guy declare, and IF the poor thing will start working as intended.

And it seems that the saga is almost over!

Computer whiz hooked up Hippo, wiped out all codes (Amber! GONE), F4 gone, .....all GONE! Took me for a ride (in manual), while his iPad showed all systems working properly. Showed me everything step by step. I have an oil leak (probably the oil pan), and I need an oil pan gasket (anyone knows the part #?). Why was Hippo throwing the fits? Well it was something obvious, but overlooked!

The rubber mounts (bushings?) that hold the rear differential in place are SHOT! When you grab the driveshaft from the bottom, you can lift the differential! Computer guy declared, that under torque the diff would move up, and confuse the ABS computer and its sensors. This threw the code for the HDC, and put the tranny in the limp mode.

Now I'm trying to source the rubber mounts, and the oil pan gasket, and I'm coming up empty. I order my LR stuff from "Land Rover Merriam Parts", and for the life of me, I can't find either part on their website!

If someone can supply the parts numbers for that stuff, it will be appreciated.

This will be sorted out as soon as I can get the parts here. The only thing left after that, is flashing the computer for everything to match (it's showing the wrong VIN number now, because of the replaced engine with its computer). I told the guy to flash it last night, but he suggested to fix the diff problem first (it might throw some codes again), and to bring it back for reprograming.

The whole computer scan was 50USD, and a BARGAIN. Money well spent.

No oil pan gasket on the transmission. It just uses RTV sealant. Diff mounts are easy to get here (UK).
Here are the LR standard numbers.
Front KHC500070
Right KHC500080
Left KHC500090

Good luck.

Nodge68 said:

No oil pan gasket on the transmission. It just uses RTV sealant. Diff mounts are easy to get here (UK).
Here are the LR standard numbers.
Front KHC500070
Right KHC500080
Left KHC500090

Good luck.

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Thank you! Got them off the Bay for $105.- shipped (all three!). Will be delivered Monday. RTV, huh? No wonder I was not able to find the "gasket"! Will address this on Monday as well.

Looks like the saga IS coming to an end, however..........the BIG question is now, to change ATF, or not? No idea when (if ever) it was changed. Tranny shifts BEAUTIFULY, and I'm reluctant to mess with it. I've read MANY reports about trannys starting to misbehave, once the fluid was renewed after this many miles (95K). Since I have a spare, working Jatco box, I am leaning toward leaving it alone, until it goes "bye bye", and just replace it at that time. :scratching_chin:
Advices/experiences appreciated.

Danielsand said:

...
The rubber mounts (bushings?) that hold the rear differential in place are SHOT! When you grab the driveshaft from the bottom, you can lift the differential! Computer guy declared, that under torque the diff would move up, and confuse the ABS computer and its sensors. This threw the code for the HDC, and put the tranny in the limp mode.
...

Click to expand...

I don't see why the diff moving would cause the sensors/abs to be confused.

Hippo said:

I don't see why the diff moving would cause the sensors/abs to be confused.

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No, it doesn't make sense, and I was not able to come up with plausible explanation (to myself). Fact is,......there is no more codes, and the tranny doesn't go into F4 since yesterday. Maybe all he did, is discover the old codes that my OBD (and I have a GOOD one) couldn't erase, and he wiped them out. Fact 2: diff mounts ARE shot, and I never thought of checking that (hard without the hoist). So I'll change the mounts on Monday, I'll let him reflash the computer, and I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Since this thing spent its whole life in SoCal (away from the sea), and was originally purchased by an old man, ....it's in remarkable condition. No rust, not beat to hell, and it really feels good on the road. Wife declared that she will be "happy with Hippo for a VERY VERY long time", I think I am actually saving money! I'll be in it for about 4-5K USD, and that's CHEAP. Hippo is not worth that much over here, but who cares? As long as she loves it, I don't have to buy her anything else (MUCH more expensive).

Even I like it! It's a part of the family now, and it was rescued from the junkyard, and comes with a "story"! Anyone (me included) can go out and buy something new (a lot of people do, and keep paying for it for YEARS!), but where is joy in that? "Rescuing" a lovable little car like this, and all for a pocket change, with no monthly payments, cheap insurance, and loads of fun..........all in all, I don't regret it.

Hippo said:

I don't see why the diff moving would cause the sensors/abs to be confused.

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Nor do I. All I can think of, maybe the ABS picked up some randomly spaced pulses caused by the jumping diff? The ABS system is designed to ignore these as part of its rough road routine, but who knows with electronics!!

Danielsand said:

No, it doesn't make sense, and I was not able to come up with plausible explanation (to myself). Fact is,......there is no more codes, and the tranny doesn't go into F4 since yesterday. Maybe all he did, is discover the old codes that my OBD (and I have a GOOD one) couldn't erase, and he wiped them out. Fact 2: diff mounts ARE shot, and I never thought of checking that (hard without the hoist). So I'll change the mounts on Monday, I'll let him reflash the computer, and I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Since this thing spent its whole life in SoCal (away from the sea), and was originally purchased by an old man, ....it's in remarkable condition. No rust, not beat to hell, and it really feels good on the road. Wife declared that she will be "happy with Hippo for a VERY VERY long time", I think I am actually saving money! I'll be in it for about 4-5K USD, and that's CHEAP. Hippo is not worth that much over here, but who cares? As long as she loves it, I don't have to buy her anything else (MUCH more expensive).

Even I like it! It's a part of the family now, and it was rescued from the junkyard, and comes with a "story"! Anyone (me included) can go out and buy something new (a lot of people do, and keep paying for it for YEARS!), but where is joy in that? "Rescuing" a lovable little car like this, and all for a pocket change, with no monthly payments, cheap insurance, and loads of fun..........all in all, I don't regret it.

Click to expand...

Just keep an eye on coolant level. The thermostat can leak unseen making short work of the head gaskets.
Also make sure the tyres are all the same make/ type with the least worn on the rear. This will help keep the VCU and IRD in good condition. Lastly enjoy it