HDC light and F4

Nodge68 said:

This is the UK spec throttle pedal switch.

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Thank you Sky and Nodge. I just copied the pic out of that link that Sky provided. Whoever took the pic of the brake pedal switch, also managed to put the US spec (and I am assuming here, because MY throttle pedal switch doesn't look anything like the one Nodge provided) accelerator position switch in it!

In this picture, you can see (to the right of the brake pedal switch), the black cylindrical piece on the gas pedal, that is connected to the pedal movement with the linkage. THAT beast is what I am dealing with, and I don't think there are any "tricks" to remove it, except to unbolt it. The ONLY way the bolts can be reached (I think) is by removing the part of the dash, and the duct work!

Unless someone has a better idea, I think I'll tell the wife that she just got a "new little amber friend on the dash", and has to live with it!

There is no way I'll be taking the dash to pieces. No wonder dealers want blood for anything they do. The car is very labor intensive. How hard would've been to slot the top stud on the brake pedal, so once the bottom nut is undone, one can just slide the pedal down, and get it free.

This switch IS serviceable item (judging by MANY posts, it needs replacement quite often), and it should be easily accessible.

Another pic of the same setup stolen from Ebay!

When we talk about the brake 'switch' I always assume its the little plastic L shaped piece that operates the brake light as opposed to the mechanical application of brakes.

The 'gas' pedal switch I thought was a 'fly-by-wire' unit to the ECU for fuel delivery signal.

Skynet said:

When we talk about the brake 'switch' I always assume its the little plastic L shaped piece that operates the brake light as opposed to the mechanical application of brakes.

The 'gas' pedal switch I thought was a 'fly-by-wire' unit to the ECU for fuel delivery signal.

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I thought that's what we ARE talking about. Brake switch in my case, is the old style switch (not L shaped), and since I swapped them (and brake lights work as they should), I don't suspect this switch any more.

"Fly by wire" is the one on the gas pedal, and the ONLY one I can see (on both cars), and that's the one that I posted the picture off (stolen from Ebay, or in the other picture you provided). Since MANY posts on this forum stated that in the case of "one amigo" (HDC light) on the dash, one should replace the GAS PEDAL switch, I am trying to get it out of the donor car, and install it in the wife's Hippo. I CAN NOT get it out, and that's what brought me here. Someone said "it just snaps out", and that got me going, but by now it's clear that poster was refering to UK spec vehicle!

Unless,......there is some OTHER switch connected to the accelerator pedal, but I don't think so. Looks like the "failure to communicate"! LOL

Actually, it looks like US spec Hippos are different than the "original ones" from UK. Since this IS California, I am lucky that I am not working on trying to sort out vacuum lines, emission canisters, and the rest connected with "pollution control", because this state is NUTS about that, and ALL cars sold in this state are different than the same models in other US states (and more expensive of course, and more difficult to work on!). I live on 3000' elevation in the mountains, and the air is CLEAN. Went down to L.A. a week ago, and almost choked to death! If you ever end up downtown L.A. you'll understand WHY CA vehicles have all that extra crap on them.

Crazy. So it seems that "fly by wire" switch can not be removed from the US spec car, without taking the dash to pieces.

SoCal sounds a lot like Brussels!!!

I don't envy you the problem of removing a bolt you can't access....

Have you also set 12mm of play in the throttle cable?

Skynet said:

SoCal sounds a lot like Brussels!!!

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NOT whole of SoCal. Most urban areas are BAD! Like I said, I went to L.A. last weekend (shopping), and wife and I could not wait to get out! Leather goods (she needed a new motorcycle jacket, and some gold), and jewelry IS cheaper than anywhere else in CA. Once in a GREAT while, we go down there, and experience the "third world country" without even leaving the state! After the shopping, we quickly drive to Bel Air, grab a nice lunch in a good restaurant, and head back to our sanctuary.

Imagine MILLIONS of people (mostly Latino immigrants), cooking their fares in the small, hot, stinky little "restaurants" (most don't even have tables, just a counter to give the food out), these smells mix with the stench of urine (EVERY corner, alley, palm tree, etc IS an urinal for these people, and hundreds of homeless/street people that are smoking/drinking/eating while laying on the sidewalk, and you have to step over their legs while they are asking you for change), and the diesel fumes out of the buses, along with the exhaust smoke out of millions of cars. Add to that BROWN/HAZY polluted air, screaming children, used diapers/condoms in the gutters, vomit you step in (and its smell), sidewalks black from these kids spitting out chewing gums (that get stuck to the hot asphalt).......it's a ZOO!

Of course it's NOT all of Downtown. I am describing "famous" "Jewelry District", and adjacent "Fashion District". The whole place (about 20-30 square blocks) looks more like Tijuana (Mexico), or Dominican Republic, Salvador, Nicaragua......etc, than USA. Unless you speak Spanish (I do, among other languages, six in total), you have no business there. Spanish is a predominant language in the "Fashion District", and all forms of Arabic, Farsi, Pashto, Hebrew, etc in the "Jewelry District".

Couldn't wait to get back to my ranch! (140 acres on 3000' elevation)

A LONG time will pass, before I venture down there again, regardless of who needs some gold for the graduation present!

rossymtb said:

Have you also set 12mm of play in the throttle cable?

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I appreciate the tip Mate! Unfortunatelly, this is US spec Hippo (no cable), with some kind of potentiometer on the top of the gas pedal, that sends the signal (of how much is the pedal depressed) to the ECU, which in turn sends it to the throttle position sensor on the throttle body!

rossymtb said:

Have you also set 12mm of play in the throttle cable?

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No throttle cable. I've just checked RAVE. The throttle is drive by wire on the US spec Freelander. There doesn't appear to be a pedal switch ether. Sorry Danialsands, the US spec Freelander works different to the UK V6. I'll see what else causes the ! symbol.

Ok. The single ! symbol can be caused by the pedal switch which the US spec Freelander doesn't have.
Gear position implausible also causes it. So this could be something to do with the box switch. Do all the gear position indicators show the correct position?

Nodge, aren't you calling the pedal switch which Daniel sees as the throttle potentiometer, the same thing???

Nodge68 said:

Ok. The single ! symbol can be caused by the pedal switch which the US spec Freelander doesn't have.
Gear position implausible also causes it. So this could be something to do with the box switch. Do all the gear position indicators show the correct position?

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I appreciate your efforts! All gears are indicated correctly.

So,......I wasted couple of hours, stripped my knuckles, and the black thing on the top of the gas pedal IS NOT the infamous "throttle position switch"!? Swell.

Seems like YOU read all of my posts about this car, but I'll try to recap a little. THIS one (wife driving it to work), I bought off of junk yard in MINT condition with buggered engine. I towed it to the garage. Never turned it on (no battery, no sounds, nothing). Bought the OTHER one for parts (ran fine, no warning light, no surprises). Took the engine and tranny out of both, mated the running engine with the tranny that was connected to the not running engine (maybe I made a mistake here?), and I plan to rebuild the buggered engine, and have a running tranny as a spare. The rest of the previously perfectly running car, will be parted out/junked.

I have NO IDEA whether this amber Hippo! was displayed on THIS car BEFORE I got to it (it wasn't running when I bought it). The old man that sold it to the junk yard couldn't remember whether he had ANY warnings on the dash prior to the engine going out. (he also couldn't remember what happened to the spare key and the remote, but by some miracle, I have all books, receipts for EVERYTHING, and the original window sticker).

Now before someone jumps into this asking "why" canibalizing perfectly running car,......well if you would see them both side by side, you would know! The second car changed hands several times, been with some DIRTY, not caring people, had bad suspension, cheesy aftermarket wheels, bold tires, and a few dents. Someone pinstriped it too (with paint, not the stickers!), and it was a "Tijuana Special".

Tomorrow I am opening the tranny (changing the low clutch solenoid, which I think might be responsible for sporadic F4 flashing) to do complete service. I will double check all electrical connections as well. At this point, I would't mind to completely disable the HDC (IF it results with no amber Hippo! on the dash), because she will never use it, but I don't know how. She works five miles from home which is at 3000', and her hospital is at 2800' (no "descending" needed).

Skynet said:

Nodge, aren't you calling the pedal switch which Daniel sees as the throttle potentiometer, the same thing???

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Now I'm craking up! Aren't we all speaking English? We "liberated" ourselves from the crown, we raped your language, but we still call it English!

Funny.

If someone can tell me WHAT is that black thing on the top of the gas pedal, I'd really appreciate it. IF that's NOT the throttle pedal position switch, than what is it? I am certain of it's function (it's obvious), but IS that the thing they say needs replacement in case of the Amber Hippo!, or not?

By coincidence, when I Googled "throttle pedal switch on 2002 Freelander", the picture of the complete pedal came off of Ebay (with the "thing" attached to it), and I posted it in this thread.

Danielsand said:

Now I'm craking up! Aren't we all speaking English? We "liberated" ourselves from the crown, we raped your language, but we still call it English!

Funny.

If someone can tell me WHAT is that black thing on the top of the gas pedal, I'd really appreciate it. IF that's NOT the throttle pedal position switch, than what is it? I am certain of it's function (it's obvious), but IS that the thing they say needs replacement in case of the Amber Hippo!, or not?

By coincidence, when I Googled "throttle pedal switch on 2002 Freelander", the picture of the complete pedal came off of Ebay (with the "thing" attached to it), and I posted it in this thread.

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The black cylinder thing connected to your throttle pedal would be called the pedal position sensor. It's what the engine ECU uses to tell how far down your foot is. I suspect it's also used by the ABS system in place of the pedal switch.
There are several differences between the UK and USA model's.
The pedal position sensor is a common sight as pretty much all diesel cars have them too, this includes the diesel Freelander!!

Nodge68 said:

The black cylinder thing connected to your throttle pedal would be called the pedal position sensor. It's what the engine ECU uses to tell how far down your foot is. I suspect it's also used by the ABS system in place of the pedal switch.
There are several differences between the UK and USA model's.
The pedal position sensor is a common sight as pretty much all diesel cars have them too, this includes the diesel Freelander!!

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That's what I thought. But the "million dollar question" is.........drumroll..........is this the same thing many people on this site say needs to be replaced in case of the "one amigo"?

There are some posts (on other forums) that are mentioning HDC light, and F4 being somehow connected together. My P1717 code indicates "low clutch solenoid" fault, and I am hoping when I replace it, the F4 will go away.
Some say that brake pads and/abs sensors could be suspects too (in case of HDC light). Brake pads on this car are new, fluid is at the proper level, and ABS sensors I haven't even looked at. I wouldn't have a problem taking this thing to the dealer, but knowing the American way of "fixing" things, they will throw whole bunch of parts at it, and call it a day! Judging by many posts all over the web, this HDC fault could be MANY things, which means countless hours of "diagnostics" at the dealer, and MANY unneccessary parts replaced at my expense.

Do you (by some remote chance) know how to disable this stupid HDC (it doesn't work as it is!) Which relay controls it, and/or which fuse? I read some stuff on the web, where people post same problems with LR3s, Discos, and even RRs! Whoever designed this "system" was really mean! If a person can not descend a hill in the first gear without the computer assistance, that person should not be behind the wheel (or driving on the hills so steep that this assistance is needed).

If it runs alright. Black paint over the hdc light? Haha

Good luck sorting your problem out. Best not sell it after all this trouble

Danielsand said:

That's what I thought. But the "million dollar question" is.........drumroll..........is this the same thing many people on this site say needs to be replaced in case of the "one amigo"?

There are some posts (on other forums) that are mentioning HDC light, and F4 being somehow connected together. My P1717 code indicates "low clutch solenoid" fault, and I am hoping when I replace it, the F4 will go away.
Some say that brake pads and/abs sensors could be suspects too (in case of HDC light). Brake pads on this car are new, fluid is at the proper level, and ABS sensors I haven't even looked at. I wouldn't have a problem taking this thing to the dealer, but knowing the American way of "fixing" things, they will throw whole bunch of parts at it, and call it a day! Judging by many posts all over the web, this HDC fault could be MANY things, which means countless hours of "diagnostics" at the dealer, and MANY unneccessary parts replaced at my expense.

Do you (by some remote chance) know how to disable this stupid HDC (it doesn't work as it is!) Which relay controls it, and/or which fuse? I read some stuff on the web, where people post same problems with LR3s, Discos, and even RRs! Whoever designed this "system" was really mean! If a person can not descend a hill in the first gear without the computer assistance, that person should not be behind the wheel (or driving on the hills so steep that this assistance is needed).

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In answer to your question. I don't think so unless the sensor has more than 3 wires going to it. Often pedal position sensors have just 3 wires. If there are more than 3 wires, there is a chance that there is a switch in the cylinder do dad too.

I'll dig some more on the correlation between the F4 and HDC.
The only way I know to disable the HDC would be pull the ABS fuse, obviously shutting the ABS down too.

This is from the manual.
The key suggest the HDC relay could be at fault.

Nodge68 said:

I'll dig some more on the correlation between the F4 and HDC.
The only way I know to disable the HDC would be pull the ABS fuse, obviously shutting the ABS down too.

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The "cylinder" on the gas pedal has six wires going out of it (if I remember correctly, definitely more than three).

Pulling the ABS fuse would be just fine with me (providing that it doesn't throw any more lights on the dash, and gets rid of the amber!).

There is a black plastic box behind the fuse panel on the dash. That box has a sticker that says:
YWC000492
27VT CCU
53070133D
483314
03/02
>ABS<
, and the whole bunch of wires go to it (three connectors). The box also plugs into the back of the fuse pannel. Is this the ABS control module/computer, or whatever?

Funny thing is, the remote would not function on the car (key would lock it and unlock it, set the alarm, etc, but NOT the remote) after I swapped that box (ABS one), for the one from the donor. So I put the "original" box back in (the one that came with that car), and the remote works as it should! What a hell is that?

rossymtb said:

If it runs alright. Black paint over the hdc light? Haha

Good luck sorting your problem out. Best not sell it after all this trouble

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No it's not going to get sold, probably EVER. Got too much money in it, wife is in love with it, I'll have a spare engine and tranny for it, and it's realy cool vehicle. It has 92K miles, but looks like new inside and out, new brakes, new shocks, new exhaust, new tires. It will be my wife's commuter, and grocery getter. They are not worth much in SoCal, and there is VERY few of them on the road (which appeals to my wife greatly).
It gets to drive about 200 miles a month, and at that rate, it should last for a long time. No snow, hardly any rain,.....easy life. When we go to the coast we drive either the MBZ, or 06 L322 RR (even they have LOW miles - under 60K).
I just need to sort out this warning light (it bothers me more than her, even though I don't drive the Hippo!), and F4 tranny issue. When the motor was changed, so were the timing belts, so it should be good for another 60K. I'll be dead before that happens!