GEMs/Thor engine differences???

Hi experts. LOL.

Can i please have a general explanation of the differences between the 2 V8 petrol engines in the P38 Range Rovers please??
I have seen plenty of pictures and alike and the difference is visually clear to me albeit i would love to know the pro's and con's on both.

Regards,

main difference, intake and fuel injection system gives better power and fuel economy for the newer bosch/thor
think the alternator is rated lower output

Can't help you, buddy..... almost every v8 out here is a Gems and most of THOSE that are still on the road have had 2JZ engines transplanted in.... and coil springs as well.



Although I WILL say that the very few post-1997 Thor ones do seem to fetch a premium over the up-to 1997 Gems cars. I think they're less troublesome somehow but I've never gotten close enough to one to tell either way.

Dunno about over there but it goes 4.0 -> 4.6 -> 4.6 Thor -> DSE for value here.

From what i know the Gems has Lucas components running the fuel and ignition systems and can be a bit fragile compared to the later Bosch set up which as said i bit more power and economy
they can be told apart by the thor having a bunch of bananas inlet manifold over a big box of the gems.

brianp38dse said:

From what i know the Gems has Lucas components running the fuel and ignition systems and can be a bit fragile compared to the later Bosch set up which as said i bit more power and economy
they can be told apart by the thor having a bunch of bananas inlet manifold over a big box of the gems.

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Bit personal Brian.

Gems - box


Thor - bunch of bananas


Either can be in 4.0/4.6 form.

The 90litre tank on the diesel is plenty. Petrol has 100L tank but it’s rather small for the engine so LPG would be a bonus. It’s usually better to get an already fitted LPG system that can be refurbed than the cost of buying/fitting new.

Difference include.

Far better Bosch Fuel injection over the Gems Lucarse system, the former is quite a bit more economical a thor in fine fettle will do 20mpg up to 25 on a run and 18'ish around town, never got mine to go below 15 unladen even using the right pedal

Gems can expect 13-17

Other differences is more torque 407nm at 2500 compared to 380nm at 3200 Thor is a tad smoother too with revised engine mounts to dampen vibrations through the cabin and a structural alloy sump that helps stiffen the whole affair up a tad.

The Bosch system also has a Microprocessor which more accurately controls both the ignition and fuelling to make everything "in essence" work together in harmony this mainly explains the better fuel economy.
The Motronic also has 2 separate Maps for on and offroad situations, which is nice eh..

HP is slightly lower than the Gems instead of 225hp at 4750 you get 218hp at 4750 which is a difference you're unlikely to feel

However you'll find a thor to "feel" quicker from a standstill due to better bottom end torque and different ECM characteristics.

Range on a full 22 gallon tank can be around 400mi if you push the needle into reserve

brianp38dse said:

From what i know the Gems has Lucas components running the fuel and ignition systems and can be a bit fragile compared to the later Bosch set up which as said i bit more power and economy
they can be told apart by the thor having a bunch of bananas inlet manifold over a big box of the gems.

Click to expand...

That was the answer i was looking for mate so thanks. I know which is which now by looks.

Henry_b said:

Difference include.

Far better Bosch Fuel injection over the Gems Lucarse system, the former is quite a bit more economical a thor in fine fettle will do 20mpg up to 25 on a run and 18'ish around town, never got mine to go below 15 unladen even using the right pedal

Gems can expect 13-17

Other differences is more torque 407nm at 2500 compared to 380nm at 3200 Thor is a tad smoother too with revised engine mounts to dampen vibrations through the cabin and a structural alloy sump that helps stiffen the whole affair up a tad.

The Bosch system also has a Microprocessor which more accurately controls both the ignition and fuelling to make everything "in essence" work together in harmony this mainly explains the better fuel economy.
The Motronic also has 2 separate Maps for on and offroad situations, which is nice eh..

HP is slightly lower than the Gems instead of 225hp at 4750 you get 218hp at 4750 which is a difference you're unlikely to feel

However you'll find a thor to "feel" quicker from a standstill due to better bottom end torque and different ECM characteristics.

Range on a full 22 gallon tank can be around 400mi if you push the needle into reserve

Click to expand...

Great info buddy. Thank you.

RangeRoller dt said:

Gems - box
View attachment 223640

Thor - bunch of bananas
View attachment 223641

Either can be in 4.0/4.6 form.

The 90litre tank on the diesel is plenty. Petrol has 100L tank but it’s rather small for the engine so LPG would be a bonus. It’s usually better to get an already fitted LPG system that can be refurbed than the cost of buying/fitting new.

Click to expand...

Great pictures buddy. Thank you. So the Thor is most likely the better of the 2 units then??? I have seen both 4.0 and 4.6 stamped on top of the Gems shoe box on top of engine so wondered about that. Plus on the Thor it is a lot easier to have the Alternator and or A/C compressor changed should they need it. One could also have the bunch of banana's painted yellow too in that bay. LOL

There is a chance now that if all goes well ( This time ) LOL, with another dealer who is selling a gorgeous Thor engine 4.6 model i could be looking at replacing my blown Westminster which has now been online ownership transferred back to the dealer who sold it to me 8 weeks ago. He has now paid me back in full this morning online so its ready for him to arrange to have it collected allowing myself to move on from this bad experience and fingers crossed try again with another example.

Enthusiastman said:

There is a chance now that if all goes well ( This time ) LOL, with another dealer who is selling a gorgeous Thor engine 4.6 model i could be looking at replacing my blown Westminster which has now been online ownership transferred back to the dealer who sold it to me 8 weeks ago. He has now paid me back in full this morning online so its ready for him to arrange to have it collected allowing myself to move on from this bad experience and fingers crossed try again with another example.

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So the hunt is on i do hope its a better experience this time round they are nice motors

brianp38dse said:

So the hunt is on i do hope its a better experience this time round they are nice motors

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Cheers buddy. I hope so too. I have a garage floor covered in new P38 extras i bought for mine so i would really like to have another to enjoy and fit them all too as well. Other wise if not i will sell them all and avoid Ranger Rovers for the rest of my life. LOL/NOT.

The one i am currently in negotiation with comes from a big car dealer and it has a warranty and loads of other stuff included in the deal such as fresh M.O.T, new tyres fitting tomorow, fresh service, full tank of fuel included too which is great, fully valeted and some other bits and bobs which are being done on the M.O.T. Its a stunner albeit not cheap but i have carried out extensive research on this example and its had a wonderful garaged life and all main dealer servicing too with a folder bursting with invoices and stamps for many many thousands spent over its life by enthusiast owners. Its also just had a new BeCM fitted with 3 fully working keys and NO battery drain problems. Also everything works on the car 100% he said. So fingers crossed a deal can be done.

cheers

UPDATE: Deal has been done and a holding deposit paid on the car. Should be ready to collect next weekend all being well. My faith in P38's has been somewhat restored. Hopefully this time will be ok.

They all need a bit of tinkering. Usually about an extra grand after you've bought it.

Grrrrrr said:

They all need a bit of tinkering. Usually about an extra grand after you've bought it.

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It will be loved and pampered mate for sure. All my cars are.

Enthusiastman said:

It will be loved and pampered mate for sure. All my cars are.

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Sounds good, the P38 diesel and Petrol are so different in the way they drive, they might aswell be 2 completely different models!
They do go well!
Give us a hint
What colour is it

Henry_b said:

Sounds good, the P38 diesel and Petrol are so different in the way they drive, they might aswell be 2 completely different models!
They do go well!
Give us a hint
What colour is it

Click to expand...

You'll have to wait and see matey. LOL. Don't wanna jinx it . LOL

Sadly due to an oil leak occuring on the car the deal fell through until such a time he gets it fixed and reports back to me with what the issue was and if at all how serious it is or was. I then may have another look at buying it as it is a lovely example. Trouble is i have also now been offered first dibbs on 2 more 2002 model Westminsters. Both 4.0 petrol v8's this time. Both low miles and full histories too and one in Silver and the other in the Bonatti Grey i had before it went bang. Plenty keep coming up on fleabay and alike too albeit not to my liking.

As I mentioned they do pop up on occasion, not as rare as price tag makes them out to be. Just choose carefully before jumping in so you have an idea of what battles will be ahead of you.
There are no minters it’s just a sales term. One with absolutely zero issues would make me cautious - it’s not normal

RangeRoller dt said:

As I mentioned they do pop up on occasion, not as rare as price tag makes them out to be. Just choose carefully before jumping in so you have an idea of what battles will be ahead of you.
There are no minters it’s just a sales term. One with absolutely zero issues would make me cautious - it’s not normal

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Indeed your right buddy. Some of the answers i have been getting back off selling dealers crack you up too. They are full of BS and think folk don't know anything or do their homework. Once they know you know they don't reply anymore. A green one popped up on fleabay for sale the other day. Its been off the road for 5 years and supposed to have had all sorts done and now he has increased his asking price, no warranty given too ( LOL ) recent full service ( 3 years ago ) LOL, been driven around on trade plates for the last 4 years hence no M.O.T history and the history it has is awful. Then you see the others for sale at plus 10k too again all dealers who don't want to answer your questions properly. Probebly why they are all unsold still.

The one i nearly bought last weekend is a lovely example and the selling dealer is a lovely honest chap too and answered all my questions and honoured all my requests to secure a sale so if it does get fixed with a explanation of what occured i think i will go back and have it.