P38A Sanity Check, are the Rover V8s any good??

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MikeFl4

MikeFl4

Active Member
Posts
100
Location
Ireland
Hello everyone,

I have owned a diesel P38 and enjoyed my time with it, never experienced any engine issues that people would talk about such as the overheating or heads cracking etc despite the car having 230K miles. So I can gladly say that I would be able to buy another diesel P38 and trust the M51 to keep going.

The problem : I have always kind of hungered for a V8, and lo and behold l have recently been offered a 4.6 Autobiography - 1997 Gems. Car has "low" miles for the year (116k) and cosmetically its in very good condition. I'm not too worried about the normal stuff, the EAS works so even if its leaking, its only a matter of seals and bags. Things like brakes, transmission, most electronics all working fine. I'm also not really too fussed about heater cores, blend motors etc - its all part of the ownership!

I have only seen the car in pictures but can travel to see it in person if I get a chance over the next few weeks, so then I will be able to give it a full inspection.

Now, presented with a V8 in front of me, after researching all over again about the engines and problems they can potentially (or according to some people - DEFINITELY) suffer from, I'm beginning to run back into the safety net of my already fixed and working diesel with my tail between my legs.

Are the Rover V8s really that bad? Every single forum I read talks about top hat liners, head gaskets, overheating... it seems to be a common occurrence that people who have low mileage (60k ish) engines, perform a full rebuild, or that people are on their third short block during the course of their ownership? Even maintained examples suffering from porous blocks or head gasket failures.
There is also the differences between Gems and Thor but im not really too bothered, I just want something I can jump into at the weekend and take for a few hours drive without a catastrophic engine failure.

I know a lot of it is down to maintenance, this 1997 4.6 appears to not have been neglected but it has sat for about 10 years (which kind of makes me worried, why would someone just leave a car as nice as this to sit!) - This 1997 runs, drives, doesn't overheat and maintains steady temperature.

My biggest issue here is that if I was going to go for it, id have to be parting with my diesel, and the last thing I would want is to have only just sold the diesel and have my lovely 4.6 blow up its engine!

Please tell me if the forum posts over the years are exaggerations of badly maintained examples, or is this just the reality (and risk) of owning a V8?
 
MikeFl4 said:
Hello everyone,

I have owned a diesel P38 and enjoyed my time with it, never experienced any engine issues that people would talk about such as the overheating or heads cracking etc despite the car having 230K miles. So I can gladly say that I would be able to buy another diesel P38 and trust the M51 to keep going.

The problem : I have always kind of hungered for a V8, and lo and behold l have recently been offered a 4.6 Autobiography - 1997 Gems. Car has "low" miles for the year (116k) and cosmetically its in very good condition. I'm not too worried about the normal stuff, the EAS works so even if its leaking, its only a matter of seals and bags. Things like brakes, transmission, most electronics all working fine. I'm also not really too fussed about heater cores, blend motors etc - its all part of the ownership!

I have only seen the car in pictures but can travel to see it in person if I get a chance over the next few weeks, so then I will be able to give it a full inspection.

Now, presented with a V8 in front of me, after researching all over again about the engines and problems they can potentially (or according to some people - DEFINITELY) suffer from, I'm beginning to run back into the safety net of my already fixed and working diesel with my tail between my legs.

Are the Rover V8s really that bad? Every single forum I read talks about top hat liners, head gaskets, overheating... it seems to be a common occurrence that people who have low mileage (60k ish) engines, perform a full rebuild, or that people are on their third short block during the course of their ownership? Even maintained examples suffering from porous blocks or head gasket failures.
There is also the differences between Gems and Thor but im not really too bothered, I just want something I can jump into at the weekend and take for a few hours drive without a catastrophic engine failure.

I know a lot of it is down to maintenance, this 1997 4.6 appears to not have been neglected but it has sat for about 10 years (which kind of makes me worried, why would someone just leave a car as nice as this to sit!) - This 1997 runs, drives, doesn't overheat and maintains steady temperature.

My biggest issue here is that if I was going to go for it, id have to be parting with my diesel, and the last thing I would want is to have only just sold the diesel and have my lovely 4.6 blow up its engine!

Please tell me if the forum posts over the years are exaggerations of badly maintained examples, or is this just the reality (and risk) of owning a V8?
Click to expand...
I suppose based on common issues, people's experiences and the info you've found it's clear the risks.
I like the V8 sound and the power of the engine but if you run it every day the risks are greatened. I use my diesel all the time and it's maintained within an Inch of its life. Like any vehicle if it's well looked after and treated correctly it shouldn't be a hassle. Bearing in mind the vehicles age, it'll need upkeep big and small as your diesel experience will tell you.
I personally wouldn't take on a V8 as a daily driver but as a weekend or part time car. A good V8 if that's your thing is a mercs unit from around the 90's to the early 2000's. ;)
 
Mark Piercy said:
I suppose based on common issues, people's experiences and the info you've found it's clear the risks.
I like the V8 sound and the power of the engine but if you run it every day the risks are greatened. I use my diesel all the time and it's maintained within an Inch of its life. Like any vehicle if it's well looked after and treated correctly it shouldn't be a hassle. Bearing in mind the vehicles age, it'll need upkeep big and small as your diesel experience will tell you.
I personally wouldn't take on a V8 as a daily driver but as a weekend or part time car. A good V8 if that's your thing is a mercs unit from around the 90's to the early 2000's. ;)
Click to expand...

Its just a shame that its so common for issues to arise on even low mile & maintained examples, it seems that there is only so much that good maintenance can do if the core design of the engine is flawed.

The vehicle wont be used that much (especially with fuel costs) but it would be a real kick in the face to not only take on the extra running costs - the car would also have to be fully gone through as far as any leaky gaskets, oil cooler, transmission cooler, changing of all the cooling system for peace of mind... and at the end of all that it still just blows up because the block is overstressed!

I agree with what you're saying as far as getting a "good" V8, I've had my eye on various S-Class' for awhile with the 5.0 or if I'm up for a real risk - the price of a Cl500 is very tempting! At least then you would get some real performance for your 10MPG.
 
I suppose it depends on which incarnation of RV8 you are referring to. The original 3.5L was/is pretty much bullet-proof, but as the car put on weight LR had to increase the power output to compensate & in doing so made their biggest mistake; increasing the bore size to 94mm. This lessened the block thickness around the pressed-in cylinder liners & gave rise the to the engine's biggest weakness ... the dreaded slipped liner. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, lengthening the stroke (as they did with the 4.2L) would probably have been a better choice.
nb. It has been said that the 4.6L is the most likely to be afflicted due to its' fuel mapping, but then there are many owners who have never experienced the problem, which is just as well as once a liner starts moving the only cost-effective solution is a replacement block.
I've never run a V8 as a 'daily' so can't really comment, but I do know that the police used V8 powered P38's for traffic duties in period & by the time the cars completed their service most had received a number of engine replacements :rolleyes:
 
I guess like all engines if you abuse them by pushing them hard and skimping on maintenance they will all eventually fail in some way.
I have a 2000 MY registered 4.6 Vogue P38. I am retired, so it doesn't get a true "daily-driver" status (I probably do 1 or 2 thousand miles per year).
It is a relaxed drive and it doesn't struggle in any way, but I don't floor it often as I drive carefully so it is likely to see me out.
I agree with @Datatek that the original 3.5 litre engines were pretty bullet-proof and boring them out only weakened them.
However, the Rover V8 was immensely popular as a relatively lightweight power unit and was shoved into many other vehicles both in the BMC group and elsewhere (MGB GT, Triumph TR8, Marcos's, TVR's, Ginneta's, Morgan's etc.) so it really isn't that bad.
I would say that if you don't hammer it and keep the maintenance up, it would be fine.

p.s. Can I have your 2.5 Diesel. (Just kidding). :D
 
Datatek said:
GM/Buick dumped the alloy V8 for good reasons and were pleased to find a sucker to buy the rights.
Click to expand...
I read that General Motors dropped the aluminium V8 & returned to using cast iron engines on cost grounds as the alloy block cost at least an extra $200 to manufacture.
 
Datatek said:
GM/Buick dumped the alloy V8 for good reasons and were pleased to find a sucker to buy the rights. As a 3.5 it was OK, once Land Rover bored it out it was fragile and also there were quality problems with the castings.
I wouldn't have one as a gift unless it was to scrap it for parts.
Click to expand...
norseman said:
I suppose it depends on which incarnation of RV8 you are referring to. The original 3.5L was/is pretty much bullet-proof, but as the car put on weight LR had to increase the power output to compensate & in doing so made their biggest mistake; increasing the bore size to 94mm. This lessened the block thickness around the pressed-in cylinder liners & gave rise the to the engine's biggest weakness ... the dreaded slipped liner. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, lengthening the stroke (as they did with the 4.2L) would probably have been a better choice.
nb. It has been said that the 4.6L is the most likely to be afflicted due to its' fuel mapping, but then there are many owners who have never experienced the problem, which is just as well as once a liner starts moving the only cost-effective solution is a replacement block.
I've never run a V8 as a 'daily' so can't really comment, but I do know that the police used V8 powered P38's for traffic duties in period & by the time the cars completed their service most had received a number of engine replacements :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
DanClarke said:
I guess like all engines if you abuse them by pushing them hard and skimping on maintenance they will all eventually fail in some way.
I have a 2000 MY registered 4.6 Vogue P38. I am retired, so it doesn't get a true "daily-driver" status (I probably do 1 or 2 thousand miles per year).
It is a relaxed drive and it doesn't struggle in any way, but I don't floor it often as I drive carefully so it is likely to see me out.
I agree with @Datatek that the original 3.5 litre engines were pretty bullet-proof and boring them out only weakened them.
However, the Rover V8 was immensely popular as a relatively lightweight power unit and was shoved into many other vehicles both in the BMC group and elsewhere (MGB GT, Triumph TR8, Marcos's, TVR's, Ginneta's, Morgan's etc.) so it really isn't that bad.
I would say that if you don't hammer it and keep the maintenance up, it would be fine.

p.s. Can I have your 2.5 Diesel. (Just kidding). :D
Click to expand...


Thank you all for the replies, yes I should have been a bit more exact in my phrasing - its mainly the final incarnations of the Rover V8 I'm most concerned with - 4.6.

A question I haven't been able to get a definitive answer on is - can the issues with the 4.6 be fixed "permanently" with a rebuild and liners? I have read people having slipped liners even after a complete rebuild (after a decent few miles like 20K+).

The only difference I would be looking for in the V8 as far as performance goes is just to be capable of overtaking a slow moving vehicle safely! The diesel is great to drive around and suits all my needs, its just those times you're on a lovely country back road but you're stuck behind a tractor doing 30Kmph that you feel a bit stuck (unless the road happens to open up to a long, open straight) - its just not safe to overtake with the diesel as you're on the wrong side of the road for too long!

@Datatek - Lol, straight to point, Thanks.

@norseman - Yes I have heard about fuel mapping, but also heard just as many people referring to the fuel mapping as "a load of bollocks" - ahh don't you just love the internet sometimes, one guy tells you its perfectly fine and the next says you're completely wrong and going to explode. Interesting to hear about the police V8s, as far as I know they were all 4.0? They certainly would have had a hard life but also decent maintenance?

@DanClarke - Yes, that's what you would hope with regular maintenance - it would only be the odd full throttle pull for overtaking or just to hear the sound - after all, what's the point of having a V8 if you don't even use it? - Also, sure you can have my diesel - All I want in return is a V8 that will do more than 100 miles without blowing its head gasket!
 
MikeFl4 said:
@DanClarke - Yes, that's what you would hope with regular maintenance - it would only be the odd full throttle pull for overtaking or just to hear the sound - after all, what's the point of having a V8 if you don't even use it? - Also, sure you can have my diesel - All I want in return is a V8 that will do more than 100 miles without blowing its head gasket!
Click to expand...
As an example, Weds I drove all the way to South-Wales and on Friday I drove from Swindon to home 131 miles on the M4/M25 etc. and managed 22.3mpg at a constant 55mph which I was perfectly happy with. The motor never missed a beat. :D
 
All engines have their quirks & issues, but regular maintenance can & does give reliability. The "slipped liner" issue seems to be talked about more than it happens. Both my V8's (167k & 130k) don't have any signs if this.

If the car has sat for 10 years, I would also be more concerned with why. Rubber seals all over the car may need replacing & any fuel in the tank will need draining.
 
Datatek said:
GM/Buick dumped the alloy V8 for good reasons and were pleased to find a sucker to buy the rights. As a 3.5 it was OK, once Land Rover bored it out it was fragile and also there were quality problems with the castings.
I wouldn't have one as a gift unless it was to scrap it for parts.
Click to expand...
Not sure why the hate for the V8, but you do spout utter nonsense about them. Have you actually ever owned one?
 
nigelbb said:
I read that General Motors dropped the aluminium V8 & returned to using cast iron engines on cost grounds as the alloy block cost at least an extra $200 to manufacture.
Click to expand...
I read that the development of thin wall iron casting was behind the alloy block being dropped. More reliable over the mileages the yanks do as structurally better.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Not sure why the hate for the V8, but you do spout utter nonsense about them. Have you actually ever owned one?
Click to expand...
I don't hate it, I just think it's a pile of crap, you just have to read all the posts about the failures on various forums.
As I said, the 3.5 was OK. And no I have never and will never own one because they are crap.
 
Datatek said:
I read that the development of thin wall iron casting was behind the alloy block being dropped. More reliable over the mileages the yanks do as structurally better.
Click to expand...
I read that they had issues with the aluminium castings being imperfect and going porous this coupled with the use of incorrect antifreeze meant that the failure rate was untenable and warranty claims were too high.
 
pwood999 said:
All engines have their quirks & issues, but regular maintenance can & does give reliability. The "slipped liner" issue seems to be talked about more than it happens. Both my V8's (167k & 130k) don't have any signs if this.

If the car has sat for 10 years, I would also be more concerned with why. Rubber seals all over the car may need replacing & any fuel in the tank will need draining.
Click to expand...

I would hope that regular maintenance would give reliability, I suppose its similar to the problems the more modern TDV6 land rover engines are having with snapped crankshafts, everybody talks about it yet there seems to be quite a small failure rate in reality. Still doesn't excuse from the fact that it shouldn't be happening in the first place!

Good to hear someone who actually has something positive to say about the poor old V8! Honestly Id love the idea of having just that bit extra power (the diesel is fine - but on steep hills it does feel a bit inadequate)

As far as this 1997 is concerned, the fact that it "sat" is kind of a loose term - from what I was told, it was bought by a guy who was going to take the engine from it in order to swap into a classic - but he felt the vehicle was too good to remove the engine and it ended up sitting around. The part that kind of worries me is whether it sat because the previous owner legitimately felt it was too good to remove the engine from - or was the engine no good to bother using it!

Although the vehicle history report states it has only had three owners, the last time it passed an NCT (MOT) was back in 2015 - previous NCT before that was 2010 so huge gaps - and last time it was taxed for road use was 2012! Now, from what I've been told it wasn't a case of just - park up in a field and forget about it - it seems to have had all its fluids gone through and was at very least not completely neglected during this sitting period. Its running and driving for the past few months now so I think we're past the initial state of resurrection (such as like you said with new fuel etc)
 
MikeFl4 said:
I would hope that regular maintenance would give reliability, I suppose its similar to the problems the more modern TDV6 land rover engines are having with snapped crankshafts, everybody talks about it yet there seems to be quite a small failure rate in reality. Still doesn't excuse from the fact that it shouldn't be happening in the first place!

Good to hear someone who actually has something positive to say about the poor old V8! Honestly Id love the idea of having just that bit extra power (the diesel is fine - but on steep hills it does feel a bit inadequate)

As far as this 1997 is concerned, the fact that it "sat" is kind of a loose term - from what I was told, it was bought by a guy who was going to take the engine from it in order to swap into a classic - but he felt the vehicle was too good to remove the engine and it ended up sitting around. The part that kind of worries me is whether it sat because the previous owner legitimately felt it was too good to remove the engine from - or was the engine no good to bother using it!

Although the vehicle history report states it has only had three owners, the last time it passed an NCT (MOT) was back in 2015 - previous NCT before that was 2010 so huge gaps - and last time it was taxed for road use was 2012! Now, from what I've been told it wasn't a case of just - park up in a field and forget about it - it seems to have had all its fluids gone through and was at very least not completely neglected during this sitting period. Its running and driving for the past few months now so I think we're past the initial state of resurrection (such as like you said with new fuel etc)
Click to expand...
I owned a 2000 4.6 Vogue from 2011 to 2016, when it got written off, was T-boned by a bellend exiting an office car park,
it had never let me down and, I used it daily not high miles but, did 20k in that time, I had another V8 after a Merc ML 430
engine sweet as a nut, but, on the whole crap and, parts cost a fortune compared to a P38,
I am slightly biased as, I don't like diesels but, a P38 V8 gets a thumbs up from me.
 
I might upset a few people here, but I do not like diesels in cars, transit vans, 7.5 ton wagons fine, just not cars. I admit I am not a seasoned RR owner yet, I have only had it for 2 years. I did see a few before I bought this one, diesels, they all sounded like a dump truck, I have on occasion used a courtesy car which was diesel, bloody awful sound. I like the sound of my 4.4V8 petrol, ok the mpg is not good, if the oil is changed regularly, in my case it is a BMW M42 engine , the coolant has to be BMW as well to protect the seals etc, bluecal will not do it, it worth the expense to protect the engine.
 
Datatek said:
I don't hate it, I just think it's a pile of crap, you just have to read all the posts about the failures on various forums.
As I said, the 3.5 was OK. And no I have never and will never own one because they are crap.
Click to expand...
As I said nonsense. Do you have any clue to just how many makes and models the RV8 was used in? Or the shear number of them that have been produced?
 
Datatek said:
GM/Buick dumped the alloy V8 for good reasons and were pleased to find a sucker to buy the rights. As a 3.5 it was OK, once Land Rover bored it out it was fragile and also there were quality problems with the castings.
I wouldn't have one as a gift unless it was to scrap it for parts.
Click to expand...

They sold a hell of a lot of them though fitted to Rover P5/6,Land Rover x 4,Range Rover,Morgan,TVR,MGB,TR8...
 
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