Fuel Pump??

Just a few ideas on the fuel supply side of things and to agree with what a few others have said..
I'm no LR EFI expert, but I've had lots of dealings with other EFI systems and they're pretty much similar.
Wrong filler cap / blocked vent - a real possibility. It's difficult to tell whether air is coming out of, or going into the tank when you remove the cap, but, if you can either get someone to watch the bottom of the tank, or better still, measure the distance of the bottom of the tank from the ground before and after you remove the cap, this will be confirmed.
There should always be a slight pressure in the tank for a 2001 model when the engine is running. If the bottom of the tank goes up when the cap is removed, then that should be OK.
Venting - for a 2001 model, there will be a carbon canister to catch the vapours from the tank. This will be connected to the tank via the vent line and then to the manifold via a solenoid valve. When the ECU sees that the engine is operating in a certain way, the valve is opened and the vapours are drawn into the inlet manifold for consumption. If the solenoid valve is open all the time this could cause a fuel tank venting problem.

Maybe Wammers, I hope you are right.

Thing is I've also looked on other forums. So far I would have fit a new fuel pump, new alternator, new MAF sensor and various other sensors. I don't have an unlimited budget for these parts. Most of the above suggestions, which I do appreciate, I have been able to eliminate so maybe your suggestion is the right one.

Cheers,
Steve

Steve Ashworth said:

Maybe Wammers, I hope you are right.

Thing is I've also looked on other forums. So far I would have fit a new fuel pump, new alternator, new MAF sensor and various other sensors. I don't have an unlimited budget for these parts. Most of the above suggestions, which I do appreciate, I have been able to eliminate so maybe your suggestion is the right one.

Cheers,
Steve

Click to expand...

Steve

I'm with Wammers on this. The stealer will put it on testbook read the same faults you've just read and then will start replacing the bits you've described one by one. They have a long history of doing just that. They seem to always treat the symptoms (i.e change the sensor that throws up the fault code) rather than the cause (what can cause the sensor to throw up that fault). Its a far more lucrative way of fixing a problem on a car with the reputation of a P38, blame the reputation of the car as being problematic while the customer pays for parts that are not needed. Those of us who have lived/paid through a dealer assisted EAS fault finding mission know this only too well.

I have a RRC 3.9 that was implossible to start when hot, no problem cold. I couldn't figure it out so I bought the Lucas module for my faultmate from BBS. I was getting no faults. For the hell of it I posted a screenshot of the live data on here and one of the members (I think it actually was wammers) spotted that the fuel temp and coolant temp readings were off for a warm engine. He suggested that the coolant and fuel temp plugs had been swapped as they are right beside each other with the same plugs on the 3.9. Holy ****! It has started sweet as a nut hot or cold ever since!!

Months of incredibly frustrating ownership over at the swap of a sensor plug.
Total costs: parts = 0, Labour = hrs and hrs, software = £90.
If I had taken it to the dealer the first thing they'd have done was replace the AFM swiftly followed by an ECU.
Cost: £££££

SpudH said:

Steve

I'm with Wammers on this. The stealer will put it on testbook read the same faults you've just read and then will start replacing the bits you've described one by one. They have a long history of doing just that. They seem to always treat the symptoms (i.e change the sensor that throws up the fault code) rather than the cause (what can cause the sensor to throw up that fault). Its a far more lucrative way of fixing a problem on a car with the reputation of a P38, blame the reputation of the car as being problematic while the customer pays for parts that are not needed. Those of us who have lived/paid through a dealer assisted EAS fault finding mission know this only too well.

I have a RRC 3.9 that was implossible to start when hot, no problem cold. I couldn't figure it out so I bought the Lucas module for my faultmate from BBS. I was getting no faults. For the hell of it I posted a screenshot of the live data on here and one of the members (I think it actually was wammers) spotted that the fuel temp and coolant temp readings were off for a warm engine. He suggested that the coolant and fuel temp plugs had been swapped as they are right beside each other with the same plugs on the 3.9. Holy ****! It has started sweet as a nut hot or cold ever since!!

Months of incredibly frustrating ownership over at the swap of a sensor plug.
Total costs: parts = 0, Labour = hrs and hrs, software = £90.
If I had taken it to the dealer the first thing they'd have done was replace the AFM swiftly followed by an ECU.
Cost: £££££

Click to expand...

You will note i started the spoof thread "Desperate" about this exact problem. Sometimes the advice you recieve on here albeit good intentioned, can cost a fortune to fix what is in effect a very small problem. With a ECU controlled engine that has run well, then suddenly developed cold or hot start problems, that sensor is the first thing i personally would look at.

Have done this thru the floor : see my pics on an earlier thread

Thanks Guys,
I really do appreciate your suggestions.
It was at main dealers today. They could not diagnose the fault. They said they spent 4.5 hours on it. They did not charge me for this so I can only commend tham in that respect. They said the previous fault codes that I reported had gone and are not related to the issue.
They do not like old P38's so were glad to see it go - they could not justify spending more time on it which is fair enough as a freebie.
They did say that when it failed on them there was neither a spark nor fuel but no fault codes! This led them to think it may be something to do with the immobiliser system as this shuts down fuel and spark - but no fault codes.
Any ideas with this in mind - it's fooling better minds than mine?

Steve

Not sure how the Rangie works, but I know on my VW running a a Bosch ECU of a similar vintage to the ECU on a 2001 Rangie, it uses the crank sensor to continue to fire the spark plugs, and when the engine is running the fuel pump get triggered.

Could it be you crank sensor is breaking down when hot ??

I don't know - did you have similar issues?

steve when you get no fuel, no spark, its normal to get p1667 p1672. they are out of sync codes, mine does it if the bat goes flat..

Steve Ashworth said:

I don't know - did you have similar issues?

Click to expand...

I had an issue where the car in question wouldn't start after it had been stood when hot, it eventually got so bad the car wouldn't ever start so became an easy fix.

Thanks Guys,

Are you saying a crank sensor failure could cause the fuel and electrics to shut down rather than it be an immobiliser fault?


God i'm so pi--ed of with it.

I try my best but I am not sure I have the competence to be a P38 owner...

Thanks, Steve

Certainley on other cars I have had with Bosch engine managment the crank sensor is responsibile for firing the coil, and is also used to drive the fuel pump when the engine is running.

I don't know how easy the crank sensor is to swap on a P38 or the cost of them but if isn't too expensive and is easy to swap out that it could be worth a swap.

I would have thought that if the immobiliser is cutting in it should through some form of diagnostic flag to say the engine had been immobilised.

Hi Jamiehol,

You were right. Crank sensor changed a week ago and it's ben fine since. The sensors are only about £30 and a few hours fitting...

I'm so glad I didn't act on RAC advice and stick a new fuel pump in...

Turns out that the crank sensor is about the most important sensor on there. I'd never even heard of them before. Apparently their failure is very rare on late models. I am surprised there were no specific fault codes though.

Many thanks,
Steve

Ah glad you got it sorted.