Freelander td4 glow plug issue??

hey folks, I have just bought my first diesel freelander today.
It’s a 2004 td4 facelift version with 159k miles to replace my old petrol one.

I noticed when I bought it that the glow plug light does not illuminate even for a blip. The exhaust is really smokey when cold and stinks of unburnt fuel. But once warmed up there is little/minimal smoke at all, it’s hardly noticeable. I’ve had this issue on a ford transit and it tuned out a glow plug was short to ground an after replacing them it was perfectly fine.

So, so far I have read the owners manual and have been googling for hours. I managed to find the 100amp fuse and it’s fine.

Problem is I can’t find if there are any other fuses to check??

Also does anyone know which relay is for the plugs?

I have learned today the system won’t operate if there’s a fault. I would like to check all fuses and relays to discount them before I go removing manifolds etc to test plugs for power at startup etc.

Any advice would be appreciated as I’m not getting far searching.

Thanks

Ross Tait said:

hey folks, I have just bought my first diesel freelander today.
It’s a 2004 td4 facelift version with 159k miles to replace my old petrol one.

I noticed when I bought it that the glow plug light does not illuminate even for a blip. The exhaust is really smokey when cold and stinks of unburnt fuel. But once warmed up there is little/minimal smoke at all, it’s hardly noticeable. I’ve had this issue on a ford transit and it tuned out a glow plug was short to ground an after replacing them it was perfectly fine.

So, so far I have read the owners manual and have been googling for hours. I managed to find the 100amp fuse and it’s fine.

Problem is I can’t find if there are any other fuses to check??

Also does anyone know which relay is for the plugs?

I have learned today the system won’t operate if there’s a fault. I would like to check all fuses and relays to discount them before I go removing manifolds etc to test plugs for power at startup etc.

Any advice would be appreciated as I’m not getting far searching.

Thanks

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Hello having had all of the above symptoms myself best advice is get a download from here called RAVE or purchase a RAVE cd on ebay You will be reading non stop everything You ever wanted to know on FL,
I just removed glow plug wires and flashed a 12v supply on the top of each glow plug the ones that don't spark are dead. Beware though they snap on trying to remove them and I had a nightmare drilling them out and removing electrodes from the cylinders it took hours.
I suggest You also read lots of previous posts on here too regards smoke mine did it at exactly 2300rpm intermittently and I had injectors overhauled and everything eventually I put oil seal swelling additive in my oil after doing everything I could think of and replaced my exhaust rear silencer that was full of coke from the previous owner having a turbo go which I was unaware of until months after purchase and hey presto a smoke free vehicle. Some smoke was oil but excess fuel too so I wondered whether the ecu adjusted fuel delivery for some reason during oil burning ? however eventually got a great vehicle, hope this helps read my posts from beginning and You will see I tried everything to get to this point. AL.

Rave disc is free to download ere:

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/rave-disk-maintenance-manual.260227/

131commando said:

Hello having had all of the above symptoms myself best advice is get a download from here called RAVE or purchase a RAVE cd on ebay You will be reading non stop everything You ever wanted to know on FL,
I just removed glow plug wires and flashed a 12v supply on the top of each glow plug the ones that don't spark are dead. Beware though they snap on trying to remove them and I had a nightmare drilling them out and removing electrodes from the cylinders it took hours.
I suggest You also read lots of previous posts on here too regards smoke mine did it at exactly 2300rpm intermittently and I had injectors overhauled and everything eventually I put oil seal swelling additive in my oil after doing everything I could think of and replaced my exhaust rear silencer that was full of coke from the previous owner having a turbo go which I was unaware of until months after purchase and hey presto a smoke free vehicle. Some smoke was oil but excess fuel too so I wondered whether the ecu adjusted fuel delivery for some reason during oil burning ? however eventually got a great vehicle, hope this helps read my posts from beginning and You will see I tried everything to get to this point. AL.

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Hey folks, sorry just back from holiday been away down south. Thanks very much for the replies. I have downloaded rave and it is as you say full of useful info.

I read your threads and came to the conclusion that my glow plugs were not the issue as after leaving her for two days, when I went to start it the glow plug light came on for about 5 seconds then went out hadn’t come on before then so I guess engine must have been hot when I went to view and buy it.

Anyway even with the plugs heated she still smoked like a bandit on start up and misfired a bit so not plugs.

I then carried out a leak off test which brought shi**y results 3 injectors no good and one ok..... barsteward! Two returned 25%+ more volume than good one and the last one returned double the volume.

I was lucky and found an excellent video on YouTube showing how to dismantle and recondition these Bosch injectors. So yesterday I went to the breakers and got two spares just incase I couldn’t sort them. I then spent all day at work reconditioning the injectors. After 7 hours I finally got a perfect spray pattern out of all 6 injectors, my 4 and the two from breakers woohooo.

I found my manifold coked beyond belief so spent 5 hours today at work cleaning it, i removed it and used normfest brake cleaner, petrol and a pressure washer to clean it all out. Looks like new now with minimal crud anywhere inside it.

Anyways long story short I’ve used your info to do most of this and tomorrow I will be decoking the head and cam cover intake ports before building her back up and running it to see the results. I’m expecting it to run perfect with no smoke, shall get back tomo with results.

Thanks again to everyone for their replies, made this so much easier.

Rossco

Hello again, so today was interesting to say the least.
I have assembled my engine and got her running about an hour ago.

Took ages to start the first time but did eventually and noticably no misfire from the moment it started so woohoo off to a good start

So, I ran her up to temp then held the rpm at 3k until all the crap in exhaust and smoke was gone, she now runs almost clear even at 4K rpm. Engine sounds much sweeter especially at idle.

But, alas she is not without a problem. I noticed the rpm was along a long time to increase when revving her up so I decided to drive it along the street and back.

She has no power at all. I mean it literally tries to stall unless I wind the rpm up first. When she does start moving she’ll take 10 seconds to get to 15/20 mph. She couldn’t even climb the hill in second gear to exit the street. Crawled up in first and quickly gave up on making it to the shell garage.

So anyway I’m a bit stumped as to what’s wrong. The throttle was very instantly responsive before it stripped and repaired it. Now the throttle is almost unresponsive.

I have checked that I plugged the maf and map back in and their in. Hoses, pipes and electrical connectors are all good on the injectors, no leaks. On live data I’m seeing maf and map signals which are both good and update rapidly.

She’s starts better than before, runs better and idles better all round. Just no power at all, like I wouldn’t dare try to get to local shop round corner.

Any ideas on this would be much appreciated. Im thinking I must have done or forgot something as this issue is new. Didn’t do this before.

Should the diesel system fully prime itself??

Bugger, will have to take tomo off work as I’ve no way to get there

Thanks, Ross

Have you checked all vacuum pipes including the one from the reservoir to the turbo boost? Does the turbo make the whistling noise at 1750 ish rpm?
Are there any air leaks on the inlet manifold?
What HP and LP fuel pressure are you getting on live data?

Hey, yeah I hear the turbo spooling up when the revs go up. I’m not hearing any boost leaks and map shows boost on live data.

Not sure about fuel pressure as it’s not showing on live data. I wasn’t sure if that was because it’s just an old motor or maybe I should plug the other newer machine in that I have.

Starts and idles fine?

Does anyone know if these injectors need to be bled?

Thinking about what’s actually been done, only the pipes from rail to injectors and injectors themselves have been removed.

I’m wondering if it’s maybe airlocked in the injector feed pipes. It doesn’t look like I am bleed them without taking the manifold back off so I guess I’m waiying till tomo now.

I hope it’s just an airlock issue.

Ross

No bleeding is needed. It's completely self bleeding.

Is this power issue new, or was it like it before the injectors were done?

Nodge68 said:

No bleeding is needed. It's completely self bleeding.

Is this power issue new, or was it like it before the injectors were done?

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Hey, thanks for the reply. No there was no power issue before I removed the injectors.

It was misfiring at idle before also was smoking and was a bit boggy at low rpm with obvious injector misfire which turned out that only one of the five nozzle holes was spraying. But essentially it picked up rpm quickly and throttle was very responsive.

All I’ve done is remove, strip and clean the injectors to sort the spray pattern. Also cleaned out all the gunk from the intake manifold/cylinder head ports/cam cover ports then reinstalled it all with new injector copper seals.

It took ages to start, ended up spraying a squirt of brake cleaner in to get her to run the first time. She’s now misfire and smoke free and sounds much better, also starts a lot easier but she is slow to gain rpm even standing still and when you try to drive it she is almost powerless, literally barely goes, 1st gear to get up a minor hill.

If the injector metal pipes don’t need bleeding then I’m baffled as to what’s going on. I’m gonna remove the manifold and bleed the injector pipes tomo in the morning to see if that sorts it as it’s the only thing I am think of, trapped air in the upper bend of the pipe just shy of where the union joins the pipe to the injector.

So annoying I’ve fixed all the big problems but seem to have made a new one.

Thanks, ross

When you cleaned out the manifold, did you clean the MAP sensor hole without poking anything into it?
Have you plugged in the rail sensor, or made sure the green plug is fitted the rail sensor, if it's had the overlay harness fitted?

Have you tried unplugging the MAF sensor, to see if power is improved?

Ross Tait said:

If the injector metal pipes don’t need bleeding then I’m baffled as to what’s going on. I’m gonna remove the manifold and bleed the injector pipes tomo in the morning to see if that sorts it as it’s the only thing I am think of, trapped air in the upper bend of the pipe just shy of where the union joins the pipe to the injector.

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It won't be air in the rail or feed pipes, as air can't exist in diesel when it's at 1,500 + Psi. Any air is simply pressurized to minute bubbles and carried out the injectors with the fuel.

It more likely to be something that's not back together correctly.

Agree something not reassembled correctly but also worth a mention to get someone to rev vehicle while You put hand near exhaust to see if Your getting full exhaust gas flow I have had CAT's move on car exhausts before blocking pipe up worth a check! ( technically not CAT now called DPF )

Hey, I had looked at it all again and all appears fine.
The manifold was thoroughly cleaned and was the map sensor. It worked before and still works now.

I never unplugged the rail sensor when I stripped it but have since the new issue checked it’s plugged in right. The plug isn’t green though it’s black. Not sure what that harness is.

Nothing was done with the maf, it worked before and still works now. I’m sure it must be connected to something I have worked with.

The exhaust flow is fine, it doesn’t have a dpf it’s Euro cat 3.

All I can describe is it’s like it’s not getting enough fuel through. Feels like fuel starvation. Really don’t get it as I’ve only taken injectors and their pipes off, don’t see how that could upset the fuel system so much.

Will try bleeding just for the sake of ticking it off then I’ll do another leak off test to check the injectors are firing ok.

Thanks ross

Nodge68 said:

When you cleaned out the manifold, did you clean the MAP sensor hole without poking anything into it?
Have you plugged in the rail sensor, or made sure the green plug is fitted the rail sensor, if it's had the overlay harness fitted?

Have you tried unplugging the MAF sensor, to see if power is improved?



It won't be air in the rail or feed pipes, as air can't exist in diesel when it's at 1,500 + Psi. Any air is simply pressurized to minute bubbles and carried out the injectors with the fuel.

It more likely to be something that's not back together correctly.

Click to expand...

So, today the car will not start. She is trying to an extent as she kicks and coughs smoke out but no fire up.

Checked with my other diagnostic and it also doesn’t get a rail pressure pid so can’t see what’s happening there.

I bled the injector pipes which actually did splutter a load of air out followed by clear fuel.

Had to abandon due to rain but will be going back out shortly. Everything was connected properly as I found when I stripped it again.

One thing I’d like to know more about is the injector harness update/upgrade you mention. There’s no green rail pressure plug on mine, it’s black, so may be a problem?

Are there other common issues with fuel supply? It’s driving me nuts now. I can hear the low pressure pump working, theres audibly good flow through the system. Can literally hear it flowing.

Stumped.

Thanks, ross

Ross Tait said:

I bled the injector pipes which actually did splutter a load of air out followed by clear fuel.

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It's quite common for air to be in the system, but it is self bleeding, or should be.

Ross Tait said:

One thing I’d like to know more about is the injector harness update/upgrade you mention. There’s no green rail pressure plug on mine, it’s black, so may be a problem?

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The was an issue with the factory harness for the rail sensor. The seal at the sensor was poor, causing corrosion, and the wires themselves were brittle and cracked.

LR made an overlay replacement harness which connected the EDC directly to the rail sensor. This harness has a green plug for identification purposes. The overlay harness kit also included an improved rail sensor, with better corrosion resistance on its contacts.

Ross Tait said:

Are there other common issues with fuel supply? It’s driving me nuts now. I can hear the low pressure pump working, theres audibly good flow through the system. Can literally hear it flowing.

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Hearing the fuel flowing good, but it can still be heard if it's under the minimum pressure.

Is it OBD2 compliant, or do you have a reader that can read the low pressure fuel rail?

Ideally the low pressure supply should be over 350 kpa, but if it's below 250 Kpa, the EDC will stop the engine from running.

The high pressure fuel rail should be around 25,000 Kpa at idle and up around 135,000 Kpa at full power.

Nodge68 said:

It's quite common for air to be in the system, but it is self bleeding, or should be.

The was an issue with the factory harness for the rail sensor. The seal at the sensor was poor, causing corrosion, and the wires themselves were brittle and cracked.

LR made an overlay replacement harness which connected the EDC directly to the rail sensor. This harness has a green plug for identification purposes. The overlay harness kit also included an improved rail sensor, with better corrosion resistance on its contacts.


Hearing the fuel flowing good, but it can still be heard if it's under the minimum pressure.

Is it OBD2 compliant, or do you have a reader that can read the low pressure fuel rail?

Ideally the low pressure supply should be over 350 kpa, but if it's below 250 Kpa, the EDC will stop the engine from running.

The high pressure fuel rail should be around 25,000 Kpa at idle and up around 135,000 Kpa at full power.

Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for the reply and info.
So I’ve been at it again today and made some progress.

I stripped it all back out and found crap on injector nozzles so cleaned them all again and retested spray pattern with injectors connected to fuel rail blowing diesel into the air. That confirmed all injectors spraying well. Reassembled it carefully checking all plugged in etc and it cranked but wouldn’t fire.

Sniff of brake cleaner and she started and ran fine. But like yesterday no power, drove it around the street and eml came on. Read code and got P0501 (vss signal/range/performance). Cleared that and it came back pending right away and won’t clear.

Tried a drive in street again and seemed to have a bit more power so risked it to shell and put £20 v power in it just to be sure plenty fuel. Actually got her up to 50mph after one mile straight. Then momentarily the other eml the one with exclamation mark came on and went out. Got home read codes and only the P0501 pending.

So long story short she kinda drives now but literally takes forever to gain any speed like it’s in limp mode. One thing I should add though is when stationary it’ll rev up to the red line but is slow to get there.

Nodge: I’ve checked and I defo have the black harness plug on rail sensor, but because car was totally fine before this I think that may be fine?

Sorry I’m not familiar with edc?

Yes the readers I have are autel al415 and autel maxi check pro. They usually can both show frp etc but neither load that pid on this car for some reason. It’s not like frp is even there with no number it’s just not on the pid list.

It’s a real bugger as I’ve lost a days work already and the old landy isn’t insured or taxed now so can’t wven drive that. Nightmare, car didn’t have a single warning light on when I bought it and drove it home 70 miles. Was just smokey before and now this issue since I “fixed it”.

Got to take another day off work tomo

It even started fine again at the petrol station. Just got no power. Like serious limp mode, only just allowing car to go along the road.

Any more advice or ideas to check tomo in daylight would be much appreciated folks, I’m about on my knees here.

Could the vss fault Code be causing this? Shame, I know the k series so damn well after 3 years, just know little of the td4.

Cheers, ross

I should add my speedo is working.

p0501 is the vehicle speed sensor reading incorrect. So that's something to check. Not necessarily the sensor. Could be the wiring from it.

That's where i would look next if it were mine.

Hippo said:

p0501 is the vehicle speed sensor reading incorrect. So that's something to check. Not necessarily the sensor. Could be the wiring from it.

That's where i would look next if it were mine.

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Doesn't Freelander use the ABS sensors for the vehicle's speed? If the ABS isn't throwing any error lamps, then it won't be them or the wiring to them.

GrumpyGel said:

Doesn't Freelander use the ABS sensors for the vehicle's speed? If the ABS isn't throwing any error lamps, then it won't be them or the wiring to them.

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Can't remember oft hand. Problem is it's unhappy with the signal its getting. Sorce or path to it. Is there a plausibility comparison? Or is it stuck at one end of the scale. The one thing i notice is its slow to pic up revs in neutral.