Freelander IRD help please

Hello, new to this forum and I know this topic has been talked about alot but I just can't seem to find this answer and would really appreciate some help.
My garage told me the IRD has gone on my Freelander TD4 2001 amongst other stuff (clicking when steering on lock and thump from underneath) and I should scrap my beloved Landy. I've had it from new and done 184,000 miles only major work being a new clutch! I have no budget to replace my Freelander and am reluctant to give up on it yet. Anyway a friend has said he doesn't think the IRD has gone as such but is on the way out and he can take the rear prop off from the VCU back and it will solve the problem putting it in 2WD ....but others have said the IRD could still seize at any moment even in 2WD and I need a new or re-conditoned converted 2WD IRD unit and take the lot off from there back including the VCU.
Please help I'm confused and don't want to spend money unnecessarily but equally don't want to drive around worrying about the IRD seizing. Advice appreciated.

It's a common ploy by less than scrupulous seller's to remove the propshafts. The crown wheel and pinion are the first items to fail when the VCU goes stiff. Removing the props, relieves the stress on them and generally stops the damage getting worse. However you will also want to change the IRD oil a couple of times as it will be full of metallic particles, which continue to grind the bearings up.

Nodge68 said:

It's a common ploy by less than scrupulous seller's to remove the propshafts. The crown wheel and pinion are the first items to fail when the VCU goes stiff. Removing the props, relieves the stress on them and generally stops the damage getting worse. However you will also want to change the IRD oil a couple of times as it will be full of metallic particles, which continue to grind the bearings up.

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Thank you, so just to be clear (sorry) as long as the rear prop is removed and the oil changed in the existing IRD, I will be ok to drive it with the VCU in place and the IRD wont seize? I haven't noticed any stiffness in the steering just the clicking type noise on lock (which the garage said may also be CV joints?....hence confusion) and the thump from underneath at the back.

You have done well to get to 180K miles with the same VCU - you must have taken good care of your tires over the years. Problems usually occur when the tyres are mismatched or fluctuate in pressure, but also the VCU will wear anyway with age which puts to much stress through the transmission and the IRD it usually the component that goes bang.

I presume you're happy with this garage, and if they've been the ones keeping it on the road for 15 years without telling you expensive bits need changing - then you've got good reason to be happy with them.

I suspect though, they may have misdiagnosed the problem. Did they tell you why they thought the IRD needed replacing?

I'd contradict Nodge here a bit. The IRD serves 2 purposes (1) 1 as a front diff and (2) it has a Crown and Pinion gear set that take drive and send it down the props to the back axle (via the VCU). When there's to much stress in the transmission, it isn't the Crown & Pinion gears that go first, it is the bearings that support the shafts they are mounted on. There will be some accelerated wear on the gear, but it is only once the bearings have been worn down that the serious trouble begins. Once the bearings are worn, the gears do not mate correctly. This causes them to break teeth. The combo of not mating correctly and broken teeth poses a high risk of them jaming, siezing up the transmission and blowing the case of the IRD apart.

This is why I question the diagnosis. It apears you are still able to drive the car reasonably OK and the only sounds you remark on are the clicking (which will br CVs) and thumping from the rear (which is more than likely the diff mounts which are notorious for needing replacement) . This being the case, I see no reason to diagnose the IRD as being faulty. Often the first diagnosis of an IRD gone bad is a huge & horrible crunching and banging sound as the gears slip - it is very obvious when it ocurrs.

That is not to say there is not wear in your IRD. An oil change may show grey metalicy looking oil - which is worn down bearing dust immersed in the oil. This being the case, there is a decent amount of wear to the bearings. Its also possible that there mat be lateral play in the pinion on the back of the IRD that the prop attaches to - another sign of high wear. Some rotational play in the pinion is acceptable/expected - but not lateral.

What ever... the bearings that are worn are those that drive the pinion/props to the rear. Usually the front diff component is servicable still. You could remove the props, as Nodge says, this will reduce stress - but if the Crown & Pinion gears will still be turning and if they are not mating correctly, there is still a chance of it siezing. However, you can remve the pinion from the IRD and replace it with a cover plate (see ebay) for a couple of quid.

This will leave you with a perfectly acceptable 2WD Freelander with no chance of the IRD siezing. There is a chance that the bearings in the front diff have also been worn, but you will tell by whining etc in the normal way you notice problems if there is anything to worry about.

In an ideal world you would replace the IRD & VCU with reconditioned units and still have 4WD. Similarly, if you are happy running 2WD, the ideal solution is to replace the IRD with a (cheaper) 2WD recon unit (it will have all the bearings replaced) - but you will likely be quite happy with the current IRD - just replace the pinion with a blanking plate.

2WD conversions are only unscrupulous if the person then tries to sell the car as a 4WD. If the conversion is done to maintain a reliable 2WD vehicle, there's absolutely zero problem with it. You should though tell your insurance company. Mine has been running 2WD for 2 1/2 years and has taken us and visitors all over the South Island here in NZ with near perfect reliability! I chose a different route - I actually did a full recon on the IRD, but removed the pinion gear which enabled me to refit the props even though all they do is get dragged around by the back axle. You can buy recon IRDs like this for about £350 plus fitting - but a blanking plate will get you back on the road.

the clicking when steering is likely to be a cv joint, the thump from the back is likely to be the rear diff front mounting, it would be advisable to check out the vcu, and change the oil in the ird to check for contamination from wear, have you proof in your service history that ird oil has been changed?

+ 1 to what Nodge and GrumpyGel said.
In my layman's terms - At the milage I'd say your VCU [ that squat canister-like thing] in the middle of the prop' shaft has stiffened. When a VCU is in good condition it rotates internally and externally and allows slippage, meaning there is no force coming from the back wheels to the IRD unit and of course there is no drive being sent back to the rear wheel from the IRD unit and that's good. Of course when you need 4WD the front wheels spin, the VCU locks internally and drive power is sent to the back wheels = 4WD, as soon as the front wheels cease to spin, and all 4 wheels are turning at the same rate, then the VCU frees up and you are returned to front wheel drive as per normal.

When a VCU stiffens power is constantly being sent forward to the IRD from the back wheels and that puts great strain on the IRD and Diff as well.

Before you drain the IRD you must loosen the IRD's fill plug. They are notoriously tight! Use a 19mm single hex socket and a longish bar. If you can't get this off you won't be able to refill the IRD!

The IRD oil can indicate how 'healthy' the IRD is inside. A fuzz on the drain plug magnet is common and the oil hopefully will not be discoloured greatly = IRD in pretty good nick. Bits [chunks] of metal on that magnet and metallic discoloured oil = IRD problems. New oil won't fix the IRD problem. But removing the prop shaft / VCU assembly will remove the strain from the IRD. As said above, that = 2WD and should be fine for as long as you wish.

If the oils looks good and there is little on the magnet then the IRD may be quite serviceable. You then may wish to replace the VCU and its bearings. VCUs are available new or recon. Search on here about where/who supplies recon units.

Clicking sound would likely be a CVJ , thumping as said, the centre diff mount.

One last thought - the tyres all must be the same brand/make, size and inflation. Mismatched tyres or differing inflation pressures also put strain on the transmission and contribute to a reduced VCU life.

Will watch with interest.

htr said:

+ 1 to what Nodge and GrumpyGel said.
In my layman's terms - At the milage I'd say your VCU [ that squat canister-like thing] in the middle of the prop' shaft has stiffened. When a VCU is in good condition it rotates internally and externally and allows slippage, meaning there is no force coming from the back wheels to the IRD unit and of course there is no drive being sent back to the rear wheel from the IRD unit and that's good. Of course when you need 4WD the front wheels spin, the VCU locks internally and drive power is sent to the back wheels = 4WD, as soon as the front wheels cease to spin, and all 4 wheels are turning at the same rate, then the VCU frees up and you are returned to front wheel drive as per normal.

When a VCU stiffens power is constantly being sent forward to the IRD from the back wheels and that puts great strain on the IRD and Diff as well.

Before you drain the IRD you must loosen the IRD's fill plug. They are notoriously tight! Use a 19mm single hex socket and a longish bar. If you can't get this off you won't be able to refill the IRD!

The IRD oil can indicate how 'healthy' the IRD is inside. A fuzz on the drain plug magnet is common and the oil hopefully will not be discoloured greatly = IRD in pretty good nick. Bits [chunks] of metal on that magnet and metallic discoloured oil = IRD problems. New oil won't fix the IRD problem. But removing the prop shaft / VCU assembly will remove the strain from the IRD. As said above, that = 2WD and should be fine for as long as you wish.

If the oils looks good and there is little on the magnet then the IRD may be quite serviceable. You then may wish to replace the VCU and its bearings. VCUs are available new or recon. Search on here about where/who supplies recon units.

Clicking sound would likely be a CVJ , thumping as said, the centre diff mount.

One last thought - the tyres all must be the same brand/make, size and inflation. Mismatched tyres or differing inflation pressures also put strain on the transmission and contribute to a reduced VCU life.

Will watch with interest.

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Thank you so very much for all your replies. They were very clear and not to full of tech-speak! In answer to whether I am happy with the garage that gave me a quote of £3500 to repair it and advised I should scrap it, that there was no option.......no! I've never used them before, I only went to them as the chap that usually does the bits and bobs on it said it was beyond his expertise and I should take it to a specialist Landrover garage! My ex husband used to do all the general maintenance on it but when we divorced 10 years ago I am guilty to admit I couldn't afford much, so no new tyres I have just put part worns on (sorry!) as and when each tyre went. At no time did any tyre place tell me this was a bad idea on a 4x4 which is worrying! I have also always towed my little caravan for my daughter and my holidays and so to sum up reading your posts, I think I have been extremely lucky to get to this mileage!
Anyway, a friend's husband has offered to take the rear prop of this morning so I have printed off your replies and will ask him if he could take both props and vcu off. I will see if he's prepared to remove the pinion (sometime very soon hopefully!) and fit that blanking plate as in GrumpyGel's post. Oh and change the IRD oil (I've highlighted the bit about the IRD fill plug too thanks). My ex and I have no recollection of anyone changing this oil at anytime before!
I have also changed my insurance to one that covers this mod (using Adrian Flux who's been mentioned in forums alot) so thank you also for that.
As I previously mentioned I've had no noticeable tightness in steering (ok I know what you're thinking and yes I'm a woman but not your typical pink fluffy type please haha!! I have driven and towed with my Landy for 15 years and I would know!) Also there's been no 'horrible crunching and banging of the gears slipping' as in Grumpy Gel's post so I'm really hoping the IRD is saveable. It sounds like the only noises could be the CV joints and the centre diff mount then. Fingers crossed.
I am so relieved that there may be an inexpensive way to sort this out and hopefully I may get a few more miles out of it yet! If not I will go down the reconditioned 2WD IRD route, apart from a bit of possible slipping towing the caravan out of muddy fields at dog shows, I see no reason to have it in 4x4 at this stage of it's life. I will keep you posted if you would like and once again can't thank you all enough

Your friends husband may not have worked on a Freelander before, so I will share some info that might help. If he has then you can ignore this post.
The propshafts and VCU removal is straight forward and is only 14 bolts to remove. You remove the assembly of the VCU and the two props, dont try to take them off as single items.
However as I found on my car Land Rover used star headed bolts, I didnt those types of sockets so had to go buy some. see photo
They costs me about £18 for the set.

I think the garage that quoted £3500 are taking the p..s. There's no way it would cost that much to replace the VCU, IRD and rear diff, even with the labour. It's a day in the workshop by one technician, that's it. It really makes me cross when so called specialist, try to rip people off like that. It's times like those when I wish I could afford my own Freelander specialist garage.
You should consider contacting Bell Engineering. They will supply and fit quality reconditioned VCU and IRD for a much more realistic amount.
Good luck with whatever happens.
Oh if you are needing tyres, then use Black Circles. You will find that they will be able to supply budget but new tyres for about the same price as part worns but without the dangers involved.

Nodge68 said:

I think the garage that quoted £3500 are taking the p..s. There's no way it would cost that much to replace the VCU, IRD and rear diff, even with the labour. It's a day in the workshop by one technician, that's it. It really makes me cross when so called specialist, try to rip people off like that. It's times like those when I wish I could afford my own Freelander specialist garage.
You should consider contacting Bell Engineering. They will supply and fit quality reconditioned VCU and IRD for a much more realistic amount.
Good luck with whatever happens.
Oh if you are needing tyres, then use Black Circles. You will find that they will be able to supply budget but new tyres for about the same price as part worns but without the dangers involved.

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Thank you, looking back on it I'm guessing the garage just didn't want to work on my old Landy maybe? So gave me that quote and told me to scrap it to get rid of the problem? If so I'd rather they'd said take it elsewhere we don't want to do it! They probably didn't realise what the implications of trying to find something to replace it in my situation were, I was very upset. Thing is it's in really good condition, doesn't look it's age like some 15 year old cars might. I've looked after it and it sailed through it's last MOT just needing a bulb and tyres (£90 on three part worns....never again!). I will definitely look at Black Circles and new tyres even if it does end up in 2WD! Hindsight is marvellous! Thank you.

Good news, my friend did an amazing job and took both props & VCU off this morning, very grateful for that I can tell you! He's worked on Landrovers before and is a keen Landy owner but not specifically the Freelander. Anyway the VCU felt seized so I've been very lucky. He agreed noise from CV joints. So... it hasn't made much difference to the feel of driving it and obviously the thumping from the diff has now gone phew! I'm back on the road and he's helping me decide what's the next best step.
Thanks again for replies

You can't really tell whether the VCU is seized with it off the car as you can't turn them by hand.
Probably a new or recon VCU and new diff mounts. Probably worth replacing the VCU mounting bearings too.

davidsmith1307 said:

You can't really tell whether the VCU is seized with it off the car as you can't turn them by hand.
Probably a new or recon VCU and new diff mounts. Probably worth replacing the VCU mounting bearings too.

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Yes you can. Use the same principle as the wheel up test - that's what Bells do anyway. I wouldn't recommend a 2wd IRD. Run it without props until you can afford a AWD unit. As suggested tho, get yo friend to replace rear diff bushes and then cv joints.

Its always a 'bit sad' when a Freelander goes 2WD - but this is a great outcome. The car has obviously got a lot of miles under its belt, but hopefully will continue to give you good reliable service.

With the CVs, often with Freelander its is best just to change the driveshaft affected (a possibly/probably the other side as well). Driveshafts vary tremendously in price. Genuine LR ones are very expensive whilst after market ones are very cheap. The price does reflect quality and the cheap ones tend not to last very long at all. The price difference is so great though you can afford to change them 10 times before you get to LR prices!

Just be careful on those muddy fields towing a caravan - you'll probably find out the first time you come across one what you are missing without 4WD. You'll have traction control, which will make it a bit better than regular 2WD cars, but you will be much more limited now.

Incidentally, if you do want to go back 4WD, you will possibly be OK just changing the bearings in the pinion part of your IRD - plus a recon VCU. You'll need to get the rear diff mount sorted - and it will probably just be the front one (of the 3) that needs to be changed. However, we are probably going by a complete misdiagnosis from the garage, so do the oil change on the IRD first - if it hasn't been done for a while and comes out looking like oil (not grey) then it may be perfectly fine to use as-is. Same with the VCU - but it is almost certainly worth changing this for a recon anyway.

Hello again, just a little update. GrumpyGel and others you were spot on with thinking this was a mis-diagnosis from the garage that wanted £3,500! Shocking! My knight in shining armour has removed the pinion from the IRD and the drained oil was clean and all was in pretty good nick considering the mileage and towing I've done. All the nuts including the filler plug came undone no problem thank goodness. Anyway he's fitted the blanking plate ruling out any further problems from that area. Decided to replace both front drive shafts even though it turned out only the one cv joint was gone, not both as the garage said. So I'm very happily back on the road in my much loved Landy, having spent a fraction of the quoted garage price and looking forward to seeing how many more miles I can clock up on my fab TD4 engine! Happy days!

Great to see someone battling the odds and coming out on top!

You'll have to see how you get on with the caravan. If there's any problems, maybe a VCU and pinion bearings for Christmas? Hope you haven't thrown any of the bits (shafts, VCU, pinion) out.

Morning!
So ever onwards and upwards and I'm still happily running in 2WD! Treated it to a much overdue service and rusty brake pipes were mentioned, so got those done but if I could just pick your expert brains once again please.... the guy who's kindly doing all this work said he wasn't happy with the feel of the 'soft' brake pedal. It didn't feel any different than it usually does to me but he said I may have just got used to it, which is possible having driven it for 15 years! Anyway he changed the brake master cylinder for me for one I found from a breakers off the same model/year but the pedal still feels the same! There's no air in the system, he did a pressure bleed the last time. On a second press of the pedal it firms up a bit but still 'sinks' under your foot slowly. Still stops the Landy fine in my humble opinion but compared to other different model cars I've occasionally driven I reluctantly agree it does feel a bit soft. Has anyone else come across this with a FL1 TD4 and could perhaps give me any advice if it's 'normal' or not please? I've checked out the forums but I can't find much on it. Thank you.

Check out the rear brakes, adjustment, seized hand brake cables or stretched, it can make a big difference to feel of pedal!

Brakes are of course very important. A 'sinking' brake pedal indicates either air in the system of a fluid [unlikely]. I recently had my 1998 FL [ 1.8 petrol] brakes bled by my workshop as I wasn't happy with the performance since replacing the springs.That might sound odd but they are related. They flushed out old fluid and all is well. I must say that I only gained the assurance of having expert tradesmen/mechanics check out the brakes and they were happy - however the brake performance hasn't improved greatly. For your safety and peace of mind I'd recommend you get them checked professionally.