1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome To LandyZone!

    LandyZone is the biggest Land Rover forum on the net. We have plenty of very knowledgable members so if you have any questions about your Land Rover or just want to connect with other Landy owners, you're in the right place.

    Registering is free and easy just click here, we hope to see you on the forums soon!

Freelander idling, no revs - SOLVED

Discussion in 'Land Rover Freelander' started by Onionfarmer, Jan 9, 2022.

< Previous Thread | Next Thread >
  1. Onionfarmer

    Onionfarmer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Posts:
    24
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Ok, this is an intermittent problem that’s becoming less intermittent! If I drive the Freelander out 20 mins or so & park up, when I come to start it again the EML is on and there is no response from the throttle pedal.

    The codes that seem to pop up are:
    P0220 Throttle pedal B track PGS (0x0220)
    P0641 Sensor supply voltage 1 (0x1E55)

    There are 2 other codes present -
    P0100 airflow meter sensor malfunction(0x0100) &
    P0235 boost pressure sensor malfunction (0x0235), but it’s got a blanked EGR so I’m assuming these relate to that. They don’t cause the EML to come on at any rate!

    What I’ve done so far - changed the throttle pedal, so I know it’s not the throttle sensor.

    Wired the fuel rail pressure sensor directly to the ECU (the wiring & plug was in a bad way and connected to some sort of mapping box - 8 little toggle switches and number 4 was on. All that’s gone now.

    Pulled the fuel pressure regulator down by the starter motor and replaced all the o-rings washers.

    Anyone have any other ideas?? Do I need to be replacing fuel rail sensor or pressure regulator (please no, that was a pain!) completely?

    All help gratefully received!
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2022
  2. Onionfarmer

    Onionfarmer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Posts:
    24
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Forgot to mention - 2003 td4 Freelander. Once the engine goes cold, it’s fine like nothing happened
     
  3. J_D

    J_D Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2019
    Posts:
    435
    Likes Received:
    119
    Location:
    Worcestershire
    P0220 Throttle pedal B track PGS (0x0220)
    P0641 Sensor supply voltage 1 (0x1E55)

    poss no supply voltage to throttle pedal.
    Poss causing the other faults.
    Can you get live data to check at point of fault?
     
  4. Onionfarmer

    Onionfarmer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Posts:
    24
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Shropshire
    I haven’t checked voltage to the pedal but I have looked at ecu data while the fault is live and seen the demand from the pedal registering, both on track A & B, but nothing happens to the engine revs. That seems to suggest the pedal and the data connections to the ecu are not the trouble, and I can’t for the life of me figure out why the problem disappears when the engine goes cold.
     
  5. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    20,998
    Likes Received:
    15,465
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
  6. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    20,998
    Likes Received:
    15,465
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Read that thread to end as first 'fix' - didn't.
     
  7. Onionfarmer

    Onionfarmer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Posts:
    24
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Hmm..mine’s a manual td4 & no cruise control. Probably the same wiring loom though. I will try and check that nothing else has been wired into it for a power feed or something, thanks for the ideas!
     
  8. J_D

    J_D Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2019
    Posts:
    435
    Likes Received:
    119
    Location:
    Worcestershire
    That does suggest the ecu is getting good pedal signal.
    What about other live data at fault, the sensor supply voltage is drawing me in.
     
  9. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    27,143
    Likes Received:
    7,526
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    Rail sensor plug, or MAF sensor could be the issue.
     
  10. hd3

    hd3 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Posts:
    2,627
    Likes Received:
    500
    Location:
    Bradford u.k.
    FWIW ..

    i did hear an account of a mysterious issue on another make of vehicle
    it ran fine when cold .. but had major issues when warmed up ..
    owner took it to garages .. no luck ..
    he finaly took it to an electrician ..
    issue turned out to be a wiring fault ..
    i.e. something expanded when warm .. breaking the circuit ..
    but was ok when cold ..

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
  11. Onionfarmer

    Onionfarmer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Posts:
    24
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Shropshire
    ok, drove it around for a while this morning on the school run then plugged the magic box in. I was hoping to get some 'good' data to compare with the fault, but the engine went to idling not long after and I had to limp home! I did at least get some data with the fault live...
    data3.jpg data1.jpg data2.jpg


    Two things I noticed - first off 'sensor 1' is showing as 4.99V...which makes me wonder if the issue is it's dropped below 5V triggering the fault code...especially as sensor 2 is at 5.35V. Dumb question time - are sensors 1 & 2 the throttle demand sensors or something completely different?

    Secondly the throttle demand sensor - when I put it to the floor the ECU read that as 3.98% & 4.4% for pedal 1 & 2 respectively...is that normal?
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
  12. hd3

    hd3 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Posts:
    2,627
    Likes Received:
    500
    Location:
    Bradford u.k.
    see attached jpg :
    gopedal.jpg
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
  13. hd3

    hd3 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Posts:
    2,627
    Likes Received:
    500
    Location:
    Bradford u.k.
    i was under the impression to engine wouldn't rev at all .. off idle ..
    so it is drivable .. somewhat ?

    re my prev post with pic.
    be the .pdf download on first post here :
    https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/freelander-td4-m47r-manual.296006/

    note : in that pdf .. the low fuel pressure system relates to older vehicles
    i.e. that have a lift pump inside the fuel tank ..
    and the turbo description be the non-vnt type .. with a 'waste-gate' ..
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    i've no idea what sensors '1' and '2' are in the pics of scans ..
    that pdf has some info re voltage for sensors
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    btw: when the engine goes limp .. after it warms up ..
    it's can be an indication of a too low fuel pressure in the high pressure system
    e.g. a faulty injector / high pressure pump ..
    ( that usually brings up a P1190 code )
    when you restart it when warm .. does it take much cranking on 'start-up' ??

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    there's a fault-finding .pdf here .. as a download ..
    https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/75-zt-td4-fault-diagnosis.203935/
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
  14. Onionfarmer

    Onionfarmer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Posts:
    24
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Shropshire
    It's only 'drivable' due to the miracle that is effortless diesel torque;)
    On the flat I can get 'er into 5th and do about 20-25mph on idling revs, she'll handle a modest incline in 3rd and pretty steep hill in 1st (I live at the top of one!)...though I'll admit at that point it'd be quicker to walk!

    My first thought was fuel pressure, that's why I started with the rail connection to the ecu & the pressure regulator washers. That one was a bugger but she now starts a hell of a lot easier!

    Its early days but it MAY be the MAF...I just pulled the MAF connector and she'll rev now...it's always tough with an intermittent fault but I didn't expect it to be able to rev yet. Next step is replace the MAF and then wait and see!

    Thanks for the all the other resources too!
     
  15. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    20,998
    Likes Received:
    15,465
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Dunno how much a MAF sensor is, but there doesn't appear to be any (major) problems running with the MAF disconnected - so I'd give it a while and see if it affects anything before splashing cash.
     
  16. hd3

    hd3 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Posts:
    2,627
    Likes Received:
    500
    Location:
    Bradford u.k.
    MG Rover Spares
    Screenshot 2022-01-11 at 16.29.14.jpg
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
  17. Onionfarmer

    Onionfarmer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Posts:
    24
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Thanks.
    90% sure its the MAF sensor - I reconnected everything and went on the school run this afternoon - fault reoccurred - I had put the tools in the boot just in case, popped the bonnet & pulled the MAF connector and hey-presto! Engine revs again. I suppose I did also remove the oil filer cap to get the to the MAF, but I'm leaving the MAF sensor disconnected and seeing if that resolves it.

    I'm going to try cleaning the MAF sensor insert first, looks like its just held in by a couple of security torx screws.
     
  18. hd3

    hd3 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Posts:
    2,627
    Likes Received:
    500
    Location:
    Bradford u.k.
    be sure to use a cleaner that leaves NO Residue .. e.g. :
    https://wd40.co.uk/product/fast-drying-contact-cleaner/
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    there are cleaners advertised as m.a.f. cleaners ..
    i've only used the one in that link ..
    can't comment re. other makes
    `````````````````
     
  19. Andy Warren

    Andy Warren Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
    Posts:
    1,142
    Likes Received:
    530
    Location:
    Hertfordshire
    The MAF definitely cause those issues (limp mode), the pierburg maf I fitted at the same time as my synergy 2a box back in 2018, failed a few weeks back, so I plugged my Foxwell NT530 in & it gave the problem straight away so I fitted the original Bosch one that I kept & it was back to normal. Have you plugged it in to a decent scanner ?
     
  20. Onionfarmer

    Onionfarmer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Posts:
    24
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Shropshire
    MAF was the culprit. I tried cleaning with a purpose MAF cleaner. Visually it did the trick, but the sensor was still faulty. I’ve replaced the sensor now and have a happy engine again.
    Thanks for your help!
     
< Previous Thread | Next Thread >