Freelander head gasket problem

freeone · Nov 7, 2010

Hi, i'v had my freelander for about a year now and i know they have head gasket problems, so when i broke down last week with steam coming out of the engine, water was boiling in the expansion bottle then disapeared i knew it was the head gasket, called the aa he topped it up with water did a few test an said its the head gasket the engine was still running ok an the smoke was clear out of exhaust and the oil was still ok it had'nt gone white and soapy, so i choose the garage were i wanted it to be took by the aa for repair, they replaced the head gasket, new tension pulleys belt ect nearly £800 they phoned and said the engines knackered the liners have gone, when i went to garage the engine turned over but now the smoke was white out of the exhaust the oil was white and soapy, would they have known the liners were knackered before doing the work or could they have knackered the liners while doing the head, i noticed the sump had been of cleaned and refitted, its in worse shape now than before they stripped it down and rebuit it costing best part of £800.

I have since found out they,ve been prosecuted before by trading standards for various offences, charging for parts not used, doing work that wasn't needed and other bad practices, i have a funny feeling i've been ripped off they've buggered my landy more than what it was, they also phoned me asked if i'd pay for another new part that needed replacing £330 + vat i said no, i'll get a used one £45.

Does it sound like i've been done or would the liners go while doing the gaskets, any thoughts or comments as i'm well pee'd off at the mo....thanks

freeone · Nov 7, 2010

I forgot to say it's a 1.8 petrol engine

G-man · Nov 7, 2010

freeone said:
Hi, i'v had my freelander for about a year now and i know they have head gasket problems, so when i broke down last week with steam coming out of the engine, water was boiling in the expansion bottle then disapeared i knew it was the head gasket, called the aa he topped it up with water did a few test an said its the head gasket the engine was still running ok an the smoke was clear out of exhaust and the oil was still ok it had'nt gone white and soapy, so i choose the garage were i wanted it to be took by the aa for repair, they replaced the head gasket, new tension pulleys belt ect nearly £800 they phoned and said the engines knackered the liners have gone, when i went to garage the engine turned over but now the smoke was white out of the exhaust the oil was white and soapy, would they have known the liners were knackered before doing the work or could they have knackered the liners while doing the head, i noticed the sump had been of cleaned and refitted, its in worse shape now than before they stripped it down and rebuit it costing best part of £800.

I have since found out they,ve been prosecuted before by trading standards for various offences, charging for parts not used, doing work that wasn't needed and other bad practices, i have a funny feeling i've been ripped off they've buggered my landy more than what it was, they also phoned me asked if i'd pay for another new part that needed replacing £330 + vat i said no, i'll get a used one £45.

Does it sound like i've been done or would the liners go while doing the gaskets, any thoughts or comments as i'm well pee'd off at the mo....thanks

sounds like they have moved one of the liners while they were doing the head, most likely they have turned the engine over with the head off, this also normally causes the main bearing caps to come off and end up in the sump (the main bearing caps are held on by the head bolts)

freeone said:
I forgot to say it's a 1.8 petrol engine

the was a given

oldskool · Nov 8, 2010

G-man said:
sounds like they have moved one of the liners while they were doing the head, most likely they have turned the engine over with the head off, this also normally causes the main bearing caps to come off and end up in the sump (the main bearing caps are held on by the head bolts)

the was a given

Ive never heard of the liners moving or the main bearing caps coming off even if the engine is turned over with the head off, it sounds more likely they just don't know what the foook there doing, would help if we new where you are, some one may be close enough to help, cos there's a few on here who do know what they are doing.

freebiker · Nov 9, 2010

The garage should have checked liner heights before fitting everything to make sure they were within the recommended tolerances.

The liners can slip with the head off (i think N.I. has shown a makeshift clamp for the liners using the old head bolts if iirc).

Northern Irelander · Nov 9, 2010

freeone said:
Hi, i'v had my freelander for about a year now and i know they have head gasket problems, so when i broke down last week with steam coming out of the engine, water was boiling in the expansion bottle then disapeared i knew it was the head gasket, called the aa he topped it up with water did a few test an said its the head gasket the engine was still running ok an the smoke was clear out of exhaust and the oil was still ok it had'nt gone white and soapy, so i choose the garage were i wanted it to be took by the aa for repair, they replaced the head gasket, new tension pulleys belt ect nearly £800 they phoned and said the engines knackered the liners have gone, when i went to garage the engine turned over but now the smoke was white out of the exhaust the oil was white and soapy, would they have known the liners were knackered before doing the work or could they have knackered the liners while doing the head, i noticed the sump had been of cleaned and refitted, its in worse shape now than before they stripped it down and rebuit it costing best part of £800.

I have since found out they,ve been prosecuted before by trading standards for various offences, charging for parts not used, doing work that wasn't needed and other bad practices, i have a funny feeling i've been ripped off they've buggered my landy more than what it was, they also phoned me asked if i'd pay for another new part that needed replacing £330 + vat i said no, i'll get a used one £45.

Does it sound like i've been done or would the liners go while doing the gaskets, any thoughts or comments as i'm well pee'd off at the mo....thanks

Sounds like incompetence, I hope you pursue the matter and win the case.

Did the original hgf cause over heating?

Liners are simple to check but most non k-series mechanics dont know about the potential issue. At most, they should have charged you a few hours labour just to strip down to the block/liners....they should have never done the full rebuild to find a problem afterwards

If a liner had dropped you would get coolant ingress around the fire rings, hence the white smoke. It would be running rough as hell.

On the other hand, liner might be fine and head has warped beyond repair/tolerance, with indents around the fire rings. Worth mentioning that a seriously leaking inlet manifold would also give white smoke.

The addition of oil/water (mayo) suggests repeat epic fail of the head gasket (assuming they flushed the whole coolant system till it was spotless)

An independent garage or decent k-series fan could easily check liners/head etc Liner height 0.075mm (This figure varies in some literature but they should all be the level), max head warrpage 0.05mm that's less than the thickness of a Rizzla ciggy paper

TBH get a second opinion, not easy after shelling out £800 I know, but an independent investigation could verify whether the garage did a shoddy job

See attachment of a burnt piston (Cyl 4) This is an extreme case with a melted piston to expose the piston ring, I acquired this engine so dont know the full horror story. The liner is below the block by about 0.25mm, I reckon the driver lost coolant and kept driving :doh:

Northern Irelander · Nov 9, 2010

G-man said:
sounds like they have moved one of the liners while they were doing the head, most likely they have turned the engine over with the head off, this also normally causes the main bearing caps to come off and end up in the sump (the main bearing caps are held on by the head bolts)

Heard of liners popping but not the big end bearings.

attachment shows same engine in above post, the previous owner took the head off and had rotated the crank.

I can rotate the flywheel by hand and Cyl 1 liner rises and falls like an old steam powered engine

Northern Irelander · Nov 9, 2010

freebiker said:
The garage should have checked liner heights before fitting everything to make sure they were within the recommended tolerances.

The liners can slip with the head off (i think N.I. has shown a makeshift clamp for the liners using the old head bolts if iirc).

No liner clamps made just the flywheel locking tool

freeone · Nov 10, 2010

Thanks for the info, the garage was an independant landrover centre that did the work, i've now took it to another gargae who've taken the engine out and stripped it down and he gave me a call and i went down he showed me the liners have slipped and told me to run my fingers over the top you can feel it on two off them, i'm going to try get another engine from a breakers and have him fit it.

The new garage said they'd done a good job rebuilding it, but i don't get why they didnt feel that the liners had slipped, they'd also replaced the sump with a new one not just cleaned it but this isnt shown on the invoice.

i'm now thinking something must have happened while they had it, so far i havent made a complaint to the origianal garage.

should the original garage have been able to tell that 2 of the liners had slipped when they removed the head before chargeing me for rebuilding it with the new parts.

I want to make sure i've got my facts straight before making a complaint so know i'm on firm ground....thanks for your replies

The Mad Hat Man · Nov 10, 2010

thet should as a matter of course check liner heights before repair.

Northern Irelander · Nov 10, 2010

freeone said:
should the original garage have been able to tell that 2 of the liners had slipped when they removed the head before chargeing me for rebuilding it with the new parts.

liners can only be properly checked after head removal, this is only a couple of hours labour at most, they should have contacted you at this point before proceeding.

new parts fitted and any labour after this point should not have been charged.

freebiker · Nov 10, 2010

Northern Irelander said:
No liner clamps made just the flywheel locking tool

Might have been somewhere else i saw that done then. Maybe on the MG-Rover forums.

Freelander head gasket problem

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