Freelander auto gearbox jumping from high gear to 2nd when warm

Hi

I have just picked up a Freelander cheap because of a gearbox issue. I'm hoping that I can get away with swapping a shift solenoid or two and trade may way on towards a rust free early Series 2. Yes, there are still plenty of them in Australia!

The symptoms are a random change down from 4th or 5th to 2nd but only after running for about 20 minutes. ie when hot. I say 4th or 5th because I can’t tell as the gear indicators both on the dash and next to the shifter constantly read Neutral. I have also noticed a slightly more harsh shift than normal on occasions.

I have no error codes on the dash but have not plugged in a Land Rover specific diagnosis tool. I have not yet checked pin resistance but will do so over next couple of days. I’m inclined to expect the cold resistance to be no indication of the hot resistance though.

My gut feel is to replace the:

·2-4 duty brake solenoid

·Line pressure duty solenoid; and

·2-4 brake timing solenoid

and see how it goes.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

If the dash indicator and lever position light isn't showing what gear you have selected. Then the problem is most likely to be electrical, rather than mechanical.
The gear signal is derived from the TCM. From there it's sent down the CAN bus to the Ipack, via the ABS modulator. So first thing to check is all the connections on the engine ECU, TCM, ABS modulator and IPack. I'v heard of ABS ECU and Ipack causing gearbox issues.

Today I disconnected the battery for 1/2 hour or so and swapped the TCM for one from a wrecked 2003 model Freelander 1. This made no difference to either the unexpected down-changes when warm or the constant Neutral indication on the dash and centre console.

I pulled all 9 solenoids from the donor car. Later in the week I will start checking solenoid resistances and connections in the loom before deciding whether to swap the solenoids or not. New parts were quoted at $900 AUD (more than I paid for the car) so I will stick with 2nd hand for now.

The switch on the top of the gearbox is a potential cause of the problem.

Today I replaced the selector and inhibitor switch on top of the gearbox with one from the donor car. On doing so, I noticed that the plastic splines that fit into slots on the rotating shaft on the top of the gearbox were sheared off. I now have correct gear indications on the centre console and the dash.

The unexpected downshifts are not cured. However, I now get some dash indications and symptoms that I was not getting before the switch swap. Following an unexpected downshift, the hill decent warning lamp and F4 flashing appeared on the dash. The car also appeared to be permanently in 4th gear (which certainly made taking off a tad sluggish). These indications disappeared after shutting down and re starting.

Any more suggestions would be appreciated.

Just to be clear it was the Hill Decent Control failure warning lamp that came on as well as F4.

TonyOZ said:

Just to be clear it was the Hill Decent Control failure warning lamp that came on as well as F4.

Click to expand...

F4 flashing is caused by an electrical fault. It's going into limp mode and it will select 4th gear. This is normal. It's normally the barrel connectors or the wiring harness. See pic below. You can also perform the resistance check to help you check the barrel connectors, wiring harness and loop through the solenoids.

Freelander 1 v6 Jatco Auto Gearbox - Measuring the Solenoid and Sensor Resistances


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Hi, Today I cleaned and worked the main barrel connector back and forth a few times. I then ran the car through the hills in 35 degree heat (sorry if you're buried in snow right now) and it performed perfectly. I'll keep my fingers crossed! Thanks for all your help.

After a few good runs the problem has returned.

A couple of comments and questions:
Firstly, when the gearbox was working OK, I noticed that the up-change from 2nd to 3rd was sometimes quite harsh. Certainly harder than other changes. Is this typical or something to be concerned about?

Secondly, when the problem returned, I mistakenly worked the wrong barrel connector ie the shift select switch connector but at least for a while, the problem disappeared. Coincidence because I also switched the car off/on?

The barrel connectors seem to me to be a pretty poor quality design solution for something that sits in the open on the front of the gear box. Where the wires enter the connectors, they are quite open to moisture ingress. I have access to the right crimping tools and colleagues who use these things all the time at work so I am inclined to replace both connectors with new ones. Has anyone experimented with alternative connector designs?

The connectors seem to be ok for most peeps. It yer regularly submerge them oft road then some eggstra protection would be a good idea. Some have put all sorts of chemicals on the contacts in the hope of water proofing them will make things betterer. I was told to do this and it made the situation worser. No surprise the chemical helped isolate the connections when they should have had a good ontact instead. Yer can change them for something else. Make sure yer dun't mix the wires up. If yer picked the wrong connector then the free option would be to have a play with the other one. If they slide lose like mine did (they dun't all do this unless the connector is damaged) then it will cause problems such as yer has. Also broken/damaged/intermittent wiring problems will cause the same issues. Gear changes up and down should be smooth. If not then there's something wrong.

Did it fix it or have yer still got problems?

I've been away for a week or so and only got back to the car today. I carried out a resistance check by both method 1 and 2 from your previous post. The gearbox was cold ie not driven for some days and the ambient temp was 20 Deg C. My results are to the right of the expected values below.

Method 1: Sensor resistance limits (connector C0243)
Pin 1 - 2 = Turbine speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 564
Pin 3 - 4 = Intermediate speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 568
Pin 5 - 6 = Vehicle speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 572
Pin 7 - 8 = Fluid temperature sensor 2410 (20 deg C)

See Table Below Method 1: Solenoid resistance limits (connector C0243) Pin 18 is the common for all solenoid measurements.
Pin 9 - 18 = Shift solenoid valve A (14 to 18 ohms) 18.1
Pin 10 - 18 = Shift solenoid valve B (14 to 18 ohms) 18.1
Pin 11 - 18 = Shift solenoid valve C (14 to 18 ohms) 18.1
Pin 12 - 18 = Low clutch timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 18.1
Pin 13 - 18 = 2-4 brake timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 18.3
Pin 14 - 18 = Reduction timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 18.1
Pin 15 - 18 = Line pressure duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) 4.2
Pin 16 - 18 = 2-4 brake duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) 4.1
Pin 17 - 18 = Lock-up solenoid valve (12 to 13.2 ohms) 13.6

Method 2: Sensor resistance limits (connector C0932)
Pin 5 - 20 = Vehicle speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 572
Pin 21 - 20 = Intermediate speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 570
Pin 24 - 20 = Turbine speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 565
Pin 39 - 20 = Fluid temperature sensor 2410 (20Deg C)

See Table Below Method 2: Solenoid resistance limits (connector C0932)
Pin 17 is the common for all solenoid measurements.
Pin 3 - 17 = 2-4 brake duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) 4.6
Pin 4 - 17 = 2-4 brake timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 19.2
Pin 10 - 17 = Reduction timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 18.6
Pin 14 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve B (14 to 18 ohms) 19
Pin 15 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve A (14 to 18 ohms) 18.8
Pin 16 - 17 = Lock-up solenoid valve (12 to 13.2 ohms) 14.8
Pin 17 - 18 = Line pressure duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) 4.4
Pin 52 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve C (14 to 18 ohms) 18.3
Pin 53 - 17 = Low clutch timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 18.5

In the <200Ohm range my multimeter returns 1 Ohm resistance with the probes touching. Therefore I'm not sure if the results really help.

I could always swap the 2-4 Brake duty solenoid and the line pressure duty solenoids valve and see what happens but it would be nice to eliminate other possibilities first.

I believe resistance will increase with temperature. The shift problems usually appear when the gearbox warms up. Is it worth repeating the resistance check when the gearbox is hot?

OK, so I borrowed an accurate multimeter and repeated the method 1 tests (again with the gearbox cold). Here are the results:

Method 1: Sensor resistance limits (connector C0243)
Pin 1 - 2 = Turbine speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 569
Pin 3 - 4 = Intermediate speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 575
Pin 5 - 6 = Vehicle speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 578
Pin 7 - 8 = Fluid temperature sensor 2181 (20 deg C)

See Table Below Method 1: Solenoid resistance limits (connector C0243) Pin 18 is the common for all solenoid measurements.
Pin 9 - 18 = Shift solenoid valve A (14 to 18 ohms) 17.4
Pin 10 - 18 = Shift solenoid valve B (14 to 18 ohms) 17.4
Pin 11 - 18 = Shift solenoid valve C (14 to 18 ohms) 17.4
Pin 12 - 18 = Low clutch timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 17.3
Pin 13 - 18 = 2-4 brake timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 17.7
Pin 14 - 18 = Reduction timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 17.4
Pin 15 - 18 = Line pressure duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) 3.2
Pin 16 - 18 = 2-4 brake duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) 3.2
Pin 17 - 18 = Lock-up solenoid valve (12 to 13.2 ohms) 12.9

So all seems normal.
I then took the car for a drive until it went into F4 limp home mode and repeated the measurements immediately (while still hot). This time I used method 2. Here are the results:

Method 2: Sensor resistance limits (connector C0932)
Pin 5 - 20 = Vehicle speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 716
Pin 21 - 20 = Intermediate speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 718
Pin 24 - 20 = Turbine speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) 707
Pin 39 - 20 = Fluid temperature sensor 3036

See Table Below Method 2: Solenoid resistance limits (connector C0932)
Pin 17 is the common for all solenoid measurements.
Pin 3 - 17 = 2-4 brake duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) 4.2
Pin 4 - 17 = 2-4 brake timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 21.9
Pin 10 - 17 = Reduction timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 21.9
Pin 14 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve B (14 to 18 ohms) 21.5
Pin 15 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve A (14 to 18 ohms) 21.9
Pin 16 - 17 = Lock-up solenoid valve (12 to 13.2 ohms) 16.1
Pin 17 - 18 = Line pressure duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) 4.6
Pin 52 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve C (14 to 18 ohms) 21.6
Pin 53 - 17 = Low clutch timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) 21.8


I'm not sure what these readings mean but if I had to guess I would suggest they may be normal. I'm afraid I'm a bit stuck as to where to look next.

I could remove the solenoids one by one and give them a 'click and blow test' ie connect them to a battery, check that they click open/shut and check to see if air can be blown through them while open and not while shut.

Any suggestions would be most welcome.

Cheers

Tony

Can yer give an update on what faults are still present and what has cleared?
The F4 flashing is electrical - harness or solenoids normally.
Bad gear shift is a number of things but the gear lever not reporting the correct position is something to get sorted first. Sudden downshifts to different gears problem... the gear lever position reporting needs to be fixed to rule this out... it may suddenly be asking for the downshift.
Dash display and LED's by the lever... has this been fixed and is it fixed or intermittent now?

Hi, As per the post of 7 Dec, the replacement of the shift select switch cured the incorrect display of gear selection at the lever and the dash. Since replacing the shift select switch, Sport mode and hill descent control also now work normally.

When first driving (from cold) the gear shifts are OK with the exception that up shifts from 2nd to 3rd are slightly harsh.

The unexpected downshifts occur and the car enters limp home mode but this usually takes 30 mins or so of driving (I suspect for the car to warm up) before it happens. F4 starts flashing this point. Just before this happens though, the box sometimes over revs on up-shifts from 3rd to 4th and then slams into 4th.

I do not have access to a diagnostic code reader. Is there any other way (apart from the resistance tests that I have carried out) to check the solenoids before I swap them?

Tony

The solenoids switch on/off quickly as they operate. Yer can listen to them buzz when selecting different gears when stationary on the v6 because it's petrol and relatively quiet, but not on the Td4 as it's diesel and a lot noisier. The resistance test checks the wiring harness, barrel connectors, connectors in the wiring loom inside the auto and the coil of the solenoid... for continuity and resistance. It's normally somewhere there where the fault is if F4 is flashing. I eggspect the same on yours but if it's intermittent then that's going to be a sod to find without the use of a code reader. The auto's computer doesn't have a massive list of fault codes but it does have some. There may be someone on AULRO who has a suitable code reader to get to the autobox codes. Might be an independent LR specialist over there.

Another test option? not really. It seems to drive ok other than this so something like a line pressure check isn't going to display faults due to it driving ok... I would assume. If there was a heat related problem I would hope it would show before 30 minutes. Especially if restarting from hot.

The over revving etc is key to something going wrong. One of the signals is suddenly wrong. When this happens it tries to correct the problem by changing gear only to fail, then default to limp mode with F4 flashing ont dash. That's all when cruising.

When it happens after 30 minutes of driving am I right in saying switching oft the ignition and restarting again... the gearbox then behaves itself and goes back to normal driving?

When it's working ok will it enter and drive in all 5 gears 1 to 5 ok?

If yer drive at 60mph in D and take yer foot oft, does it select all gears ok as it slows down until it's trickling along on tickover?

Thanks for the quick response. In answer to your questions:

When it happens after 30 minutes of driving am I right in saying switching oft the ignition and restarting again... the gearbox then behaves itself and goes back to normal driving? - Yes

When it's working ok will it enter and drive in all 5 gears 1 to 5 ok? - Yes

If yer drive at 60mph in D and take yer foot oft, does it select all gears ok as it slows down until it's trickling along on tickover? - Yes

I don't have a list of hot measurements to compare. I think I did this years ago but can't find it. The figures all seem to have moved by the same approx. percentage.

When you drive it for 30 mins to get it to F4 fail... how many times has it changed gear ok during this period? Are you driving round residential and stopping stationary every minute then pulling away? What's the mileage ont dash?

A difficult problem. The fault doesn't happen often enough to prove outright and when it does it doesn't show up easily via resistance checks. The only way forward on this is to read the current error codes int engine, gearbox and abs computers. Then clear them all. Then take it for a drive until the fault occurs and see what codes become available in the 3 computers. If it were mine I'd be tempted to check it again when warm before F4 fault appears, to see if there's any codes before this, then drive it until F4 then check again. Not having a codes reader is going to be a small problem here. Not sure what's available on your side of the planet. I refer to checking these 3 computers together because it's the engine computer that asks the auto computer to change gears. The auto computer then does this if it can, depending on certain factors/references. The whole process is dependent on a number of things, some of this referenced against signals from the abs computer. It's a lot more complex than this but it's the way to go checking all 3 as yer never know what hint's yer may get from logged fault codes.

Over hear we have the original hawkeye (licensed to specific model types as per what the owner purchased) or the hawkeye total which does all LR's on their current list (thems with odb2 connector). We also have autologic and similar professional use devices but these are normally only available at garages as they cost thousands to buy. I'm told autologic will do this but not seen it myself. There are a number of other cheaper devices on the market which promise a lot, but often we find they don't forefill the promise. T4 test book is available as per what LR dealers have but the only versions of this in private hands have often been "filtered" from garages. Especially when rover dealers closed int uk when rover collapsed. Lynx is also available but I don't know which model from their range to use and have never seen it being used. Diagnostic device is a bit of a mine field as some state they've seen something work which others can't get working. Hence why I always mention if I've seen it work or not. Video proof ont web isn't available for a lot of these devices. Especially on the FL1 and general LR products. Proof or it din't happen...

So with this in mind yer kind of stuck without a diagnostic. Anything you change or do will be just a guess. I can't see a way forward of resolving this. The 2-3 up shift is likely to be one of the solenoids. Two of them change state on this shift as well as the usual pressure switching etc. You could change them all but there's no guarantee that will solve the F4 problem at the same time. I don't like advising peeps to spend money unless I can see a clear benefit to the spend. Unless it's a cheap spend or process of elimination with a logic condition in mind. 2-3 problem may be fixed or become less prominent with an auto oil change. Not sure if yer done this already. There's a specific way to do it as mentioned on LZ.

Can you have a feel of the auto gearbox wiring harness to check it's not caught on anything. Betterer still try to get a look at it for damage, cuts, burnt insulation etc. Also make sure the barrel connectors are clean inside. Small cotton ear buds or the yellow pipe cleaners (which I used to make spiders when little) are good anorl. Something small to poke in and clean with alcohol or similar only. If yer have used contact cleaner etc then this ideally needs wiped oft as it often leaves a layer on the surface which is a potential insulator between the pins/sockets. Ensure the wires are secured into the pin/barrel too by giving them a gentle tug. Also do the same to the connectors on the auto gearbox computer. Check none of them are loose and slide out of the blue strip connector shown in the resistance video. Also check the pins on the computer side for damage/clean etc.

Thanks again for your help.

I have taken the plunge based on a number of other posts regarding similar symptoms with the jatco gearbox pointing to the 2/4 brake duty solenoid and the line pressure duty solenoid and replaced both of these with two 2nd hand items from a donor/wreck. Yes, I know this may be a complete waste of time using 2nd hand parts! Also not a great deal of fun when I also chose to loosen but not remove the fluid cooler. Lucky I have small hands.

I'm on holidays at the moment and my time is free. Also the Freelander is not my daily driver, so this is more recreation than necessity.

Now that I have got this far, would you suggest that I swap any other solenoids before I re-assemble?

By the way, I did find an independent LR specialist that can download diagnostic codes for a fee. He actually advised me not to bother. His opinion was that he had not previously found them to be terribly useful. Strange, but I suspect that he doesn't work on auto boxes and refers this type of work to gearbox specialists.

One thing I did find while under the car was that the ribbed tube that protects the wiring loom between the gearbox and the barrel connector was completely worn away where the loom passes over the fluid cooler support bracket. The individual wires look ok externally but from previous experience with door and tailgate wiring looms that flex frequently this can hide internal breakdown of the wire cores and cause intermittent connection problems.

It's 4 in the morning here, so I'm not inclined to get under the car now and have a look but I'm wondering if the loom can be completely removed between the barrel connector and the valve module? I noticed a couple of connectors at the valve module but I not sure if the whole loom will come away cleanly. It would be nice to get it on the bench for investigation.

I would be tempted to change the reduction timing solenoid while yer in there.

Interesting what the dealer says. Main dealers tend not to fix auto's. It's not the case they can't... it's the time involved which is too eggspensive. Also they would have to put a warranty on it due to their work inside which has a certain element of financial risk. There's 2 type's of recon auto. Fix what's broken only or give it a full service where everything worn or in the service pack gets changed. Like all the seals. Re-conners will put it on a hydro rig to fill with oil and test it. The betterer ones do at least. Some don't. I can appreciate the comment of codes... there's not many available. Only something like 25. Most are obvious like a short to power rails which can be found with resistance checks. In general when the box is fek'd it's fek'd so they replace. Yer get a happier customer if the problem is gone for good which changing the auto should do.

If yer look at the pic's below I think you'll be able to pull the metal clip and slide the wiring loom out after disconnecting it. I haven't done this to mine but I remember some resin like substance int hole. Worst case would be the need to replace this to water proof it. Any damage to this cable as yer list above would be where I would be looking first. It would be the likely cause of F4 flashing. What we're looking for on yours is so occasional a road bump and the wire moving just enough could be the issue if it's connecting to the cooler case, which is 0v. Also give each solenoid cable inside a quick wobble to check it's got a good connection.


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