Freelander 1.8 K series hgf - more data

rob_bell said:

As an owner of a 2.0CDTi MG ZTT with the same M47R engine, I know exactly what you mean... (best forget about the MAF and fuel pump problems too! Ah, the fun and games... LOL)

Runs really well know with a 160 remap mind!

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Speaking of which, as the owner of two TD4's where can one obtain such a remap? Is it off the shelf or a proper remap by professionals?

Mine was mapped by Kenton, who was doing a lot of work on ZTs about 18 months ago, before moving back to proper engineering on trains! He had a T4 - and the map was uploaded from that.

Perhaps pop over to the Rover 75 and ZT owners forum and see whether one of the T4 guys can help out? I never really got on with the MAFAM, but genuinely, with this re-map the car really goes well: I'm really, really pleased with the results. I've also got the EGR blanking and the silicone intercooler hose

There's no doubt a proper remap will be better than a Ron box or equivalent but for now I'm going that way. Here is a thread where one of our members is trying to teach the numpties (I'm number 1 numpty) some basic electronics to amplify the MAF signals.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...ew-leccy-projects-for-the-so-inclined.304017/

I think RoverRon was a top guy - I just couldn't get the same driveability as everyone else. That may not have been the box's fault - but rather a faulty MAF.

It's worth a go though - and Joe's circuit looks just the ticket: a brilliant little project

Hi everyone. Have a 1999 1.8 hippo I purchased new from Paramount in Swansea and have until recently only used it a few times a year and up until January 2015 I had only done a total of 18000 miles but my son needed a run about and it's now on 30k .What should I do now to prevent HGF as I believe prevention is better than cure. Setting fire to it on Nov the 5th before the inevitable happens is my last option as I have purchased him a new car and I want to start using the hippo as its in pristine condition what he was offered for it as a P/X against the new car was a joke, even the VW dealer couldn't believe how immaculate it was such low mileage but even he could only offer £500. Yes yes I know maybe I should have ripped his hand off and taken the money never looking back. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Lee

Lee.911 said:

Hi everyone. Have a 1999 1.8 hippo I purchased new from Paramount in Swansea and have until recently only used it a few times a year and up until January 2015 I had only done a total of 18000 miles but my son needed a run about and it's now on 30k .What should I do now to prevent HGF as I believe prevention is better than cure. Setting fire to it on Nov the 5th before the inevitable happens is my last option as I have purchased him a new car and I want to start using the hippo as its in pristine condition what he was offered for it as a P/X against the new car was a joke, even the VW dealer couldn't believe how immaculate it was such low mileage but even he could only offer £500. Yes yes I know maybe I should have ripped his hand off and taken the money never looking back. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Lee

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Having had it for 16 years it seams a shame to get rid if you are only going to get £500 for it!

I think the only way to stop HGF on the 1.8 is to replace the HG before the inevitable F. It sounds like they 'go' every 50-80K miles, so replace it every 40K miles. That's a bit futile though because sods law the new one will go after 10K! If you are going to change it as preventative maintenance (which makes sense so that the head isn't damaged), make sure you choose the right one to replace it with. There are various types and most people/places just "replace with a multi layered gasket" - which may not be the right one to use. I'm sure you'll get some advice from people that know more than me - but there are plenty of good threads on K Series head gasket replacement on here - have a search.

It's worth more than £500. A trade in price isn't representative of its actual value.
If it's immaculate with very low miles, it could well be worth 3 or more times the trade in value.
As for the HG replacement. Get it done by someone who knows what they are doing. Fit the latest Payen elastopolymer gasket kit and the PRT thermostat.
This will give you another 70,000 plus miles without any worries of HGF

Hi Nodge68 & Grumpygel ,firstly thanks for taking the time to reply and can I just ask are the Payen the only ones who do a elastopolymer gasket and is there a particular type of replacement gasket i should not bother with.

Lee.911 said:

Hi Nodge68 & Grumpygel ,firstly thanks for taking the time to reply and can I just ask are the Payen the only ones who do a elastopolymer gasket and is there a particular type of replacement gasket i should not bother with.

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There are many makes of elastopolymer gaskets. However they vary in quality to a huge degree.
I would only fit the latest Payen elastopolymer. The K series is a bit of a problem child anyway. It doesn't want low quality replacements, making it worse

Thanks again for the swift reply Nodge68, do you think just getting the PRT thermostat done at present would be a good measure until i get round to having the HG done ?.

By all means replace the thermostat for the superior PRT version (note that there are three different ones available!), but I'd leave the head gasket well alone if it shows no signs of failure. There is no evidence that early replacement prevents future failure, it is expensive, and there is a chance you can make things worse by doing so.

Just ensure that the coolant system (rad, pipes etc) are in good condition, and when you fully service, replace the belt tensioner and water pump (its "O" ring can fail and leak).

All in my humble opinion of course.

Thanks Rob for the advice, I believe looking at some other threads and one or two on MGF forums that you can get different coloured coded temp PRT thermostats and lots of different silicone pipe upgrades can anyone please suggest what type / make and heat range I should be looking at.

In MGs, we use the grey PEL500110 version.

A useful little page to have a read of here: http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Pressure_Relief_Remote_Thermostat

rob_bell said:

By all means replace the thermostat for the superior PRT version (note that there are three different ones available!), but I'd leave the head gasket well alone if it shows no signs of failure. There is no evidence that early replacement prevents future failure, it is expensive, and there is a chance you can make things worse by doing so.

Just ensure that the coolant system (rad, pipes etc) are in good condition, and when you fully service, replace the belt tensioner and water pump (its "O" ring can fail and leak).

All in my humble opinion of course.

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+1 on all this.
The car is worth far more to you than the financial value of it so spend a few hundred quid on it and you'll get many more miles and years out of it.
The only thing I would add is, if not already done get the timing belt replaced as a matter of urgency. It should be done every 60k miles or 6 years, whichever comes first.
While there do the water pump and tensioner as they're cheap and easily done while the belt is off anyway.

To the tune of Thin Lizzy's "Still in love with you"

Think I'll just fall to pieces,
If I can't find something else to do.
This sadness never ceases.
My head gasket just blew

ferkin K-series

Cheers
Simon

hi to all been reading this thread on and off for a while thought id share my experience with the k series engine as stated in the thread quite often the problem with re offending head gasket failure is down to liner height i had bought a rover 25 with a blown head gasket very cheap thought would repair it give it to my partner for a runaround took the head off usual liner ring marks in the head so thought get it skimmed then checked liner height as per information id found on line seemed all my liners were level with block face so after more searching on line the common opinion was block knackered then one guy on the rover forum posted he`d found shims that went under the liner to lift them back up which got me thinking so off i went to chat with the guy who does my head skimming my idea was to skim the block at the same time so liners were where they needed to be head skimmed new multi layer head gasket new uprated oil ladder the upshot was the engine been in the car for last 4 years and not missed a beat not saying this is proper solution but worked for me

geffro said:

hi to all been reading this thread on and off for a while thought id share my experience with the k series engine as stated in the thread quite often the problem with re offending head gasket failure is down to liner height i had bought a rover 25 with a blown head gasket very cheap thought would repair it give it to my partner for a runaround took the head off usual liner ring marks in the head so thought get it skimmed then checked liner height as per information id found on line seemed all my liners were level with block face so after more searching on line the common opinion was block knackered then one guy on the rover forum posted he`d found shims that went under the liner to lift them back up which got me thinking so off i went to chat with the guy who does my head skimming my idea was to skim the block at the same time so liners were where they needed to be head skimmed new multi layer head gasket new uprated oil ladder the upshot was the engine been in the car for last 4 years and not missed a beat not saying this is proper solution but worked for me

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If it works don't knock it.

The block can be milled by 0.2mm without an issue. This will effectively increase liner hight in relation to the block. This will correct the low liner issues. It should be noted that reducing the block hight much more than 0.2mm, will retard cam timing. This retardation is compounded by skimming the head. So if the head is skimmed 0.3mm then the total retardation of the cam will be several crank shaft degrees. This will effect maximum power the engine will produce. Otherwise it's a good way of keeping and old tired engine in running condition.

Nodge68 said:

The block can be milled by 0.2mm without an issue. This will effectively increase liner hight in relation to the block. This will correct the low liner issues. It should be noted that reducing the block hight much more than 0.2mm, will retard cam timing. This retardation is compounded by skimming the head. So if the head is skimmed 0.3mm then the total retardation of the cam will be several crank shaft degrees. This will effect maximum power the engine will produce. Otherwise it's a good way of keeping and old tired engine in running condition.

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Hi Nodge,
Providing there is mechanical clearance after any work, cam timing is usually easily sorted - and certainly be anyone who has gone to all that work. We usually had to re-time the cams on all rebuilt units and all modified cams in general.. We vary rarely used vernier wheels as there was usually absolutely no need apart from on a race engine where adjustments may need to be made on the rollers. On key tapers we used offset keys in most cases with small adjustment - or re-milled the key-way after rotating the pulley around 180 degrees (but the need for this as opposed to small offset keys was unusual. !).
On pinned drive it was MUCH much easier - I believe the K series uses theses ?. Offset dowels are available for all standard sized pins and are excellent for the majority of cases - or, in the case of not bothering with offset dowels - it was a matter of removing the pin completely then after provisionally rotating the pulley around 180 degrees, belting the unit, then adjust the now non pinned pulley(s) in relation to the cam(s) (after setting up the cam(s) in relation to the crank) - and then re-drilling the dowel pin location in the cam using the existing pulley dowel hole as a guide. It was an easy job to do in reality. The other way was to time everything as above without the pins (dowels) - again with the pulley rotated away from the original dowel location - and mark the existing cam dowel location to back of now clear pulley area with engineers blue on the faces. Once set and everything tighten - remove belt and pulleys and re-drill the pulley dowel locating holes. (NOT using offsets was our preferred method as it was actually far easier without ) .This is the method used if not enough cam mating area to re-drill the dowel. There was also a method that was used in rare cases - and that was to re-drill a smaller - 3mm - hole completely through the pulley and cam mating area and use a high tensile dowel tapped through.
It sounds more complex than it is and really does not take long to do.
If the engine is out - which it would be if the block was skimmed of course, then it is easy to do.
As to the viability or cost effectiveness on a K series ? - I have no comment really as I have never worked on that engine, but it certainly is a method used on practically all high spec units we ever worked on. Even with modified cams we ideally had to set the timing on each individual unit.
It is simplicity for most who can disassemble and rebuild an engine, read a dial gauge and specs and use a drill and 360 degree timing disk (or make a disk out of cardboard). Even a hand drill was perfectly ok.
Always one to keep on the back burner and also one for anyone interested in getting the best out of their rebuilt unit.

Dave Andrews and other K-series tuning guys use off-set dowels on K-series engines with very good effect

Linishing or milling the block is a good way to get the necessary 2 thou stand-proud for the liners to work well with the MLS. The liner spacers are also a good solution

As with all such things, it is not just one problem that needs to be looked at: it is a lot of details that need to be checked: head hardness, liner height, use of good quality parts, careful assembly with attention to detail - these all impact upon the longevity of the replacement. You also need to ensure that the cooling system is adequately bleed, and that any other potential causative fault is corrected at this stage.

Sometimes it is just a case of throwing a new gasket on - but this can be a lottery if you haven't done the ground work (preparation) properly...