Free TD4 auto - no rear wheel drive

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PetrVIVIVI

Member
Posts
36
Location
Czech Republic
Hello guys. Can you please tell me what should I check?
I have new rear diff, reconditioned VCU, new bearings.
I tried to go uphill and front wheel spins as hell and rear wheel nothing. When front wheel starts to spin a lot TC lights blink to me a few time. Can this be that my IRD is gone or what else could it be?
I have some errors like left front wheel sensor no output and can gearbox data failure (maybe my unit can not read that).
Also I look at my fuze box and some places are empty. Is this normal?
Freelander TD4 2004 auto gearbox
 

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jamesmartin said:
one front wheel could spin if t/c isnt working,if both wheels spin there no drive from ird or vcu isnt working
Click to expand...
Hi. Thank you for your answer. It looks like only one front wheel spins much more probably due to failed speed sensor. So if I replace faulty sensor then both wheels should spin and IRD will give power to rear wheel. Am I get it right?
 
PetrVIVIVI said:
Hi. Thank you for your answer. It looks like only one front wheel spins much more probably due to failed speed sensor. So if I replace faulty sensor then both wheels should spin and IRD will give power to rear wheel. Am I get it right?
Click to expand...
if everything is ok if both wheels tried to spin it should lock vcu and give solid drive to the rear
 
At least one rear wheel should be spinning - drive is supplied to rear regardless of front wheel traction.

Raise one rear wheel off the ground - you should not be able to spin it by hand.

We did have one owner on here whose VCU had been drained, so it was an open coupling. Maybe this has happened to yours.
 
guineafowl21 said:
At least one rear wheel should be spinning - drive is supplied to rear regardless of front wheel traction.

Raise one rear wheel off the ground - you should not be able to spin it by hand.

We did have one owner on here whose VCU had been drained, so it was an open coupling. Maybe this has happened to yours.
Click to expand...

I did what you adviced. Can you look at video and tell me if this is normal state?
 
If yer give it some power, both front wheels will physically spin regardless of traction control working or not. The sheer power from the engine/grearbox will spin both front wheels.

The fact the rear wheel doesn't turn much in the video means the prop shaft connection into the ird is connected. Therefore I would expect the propshaft to turn when you spin the front wheels. This would power the rear wheels.

If you think you have physical problems with the transmission on a Freelander 1, then the following text will help you test it.

Hippo said:
With the engine oft, chock the rear wheels and put the handbrake on, disconnect the front prop from the IRD and:

With the auto in park (in gear for manuals) lift 1 front wheel and it won't turn. The IRD pinion won't turn when you turn the lifted front wheel. If you put the auto into neutral (neutral on manuals too) the lifted front wheel will now turn and so will the pinion if you turn the lifted front wheel.

If you put the lifted front wheel on the ground and lift the other front wheel the same will happen as above.

If you lift both front wheels and turn 1 the other will turn regardless of the auto being in neutral or park (neutral or in gear for manuals) in the opposite direction. The only difference is the pinion gear will turn if the gearbox is in neutral (doesn't matter if auto or manual). If you sharply turn or quickly slow down the wheel yer turning the pinion will turn more than the wheel yer turning. I assume it's due to the path of least resistance as the power escapes.

If lifting both front and rear wheels on the same side of the Freelander, with the prop/vcu connected, and the engine oft and the auto in park (in gear for manuals) the front wheel won't turn when you turn the rear wheel (assuming the vcu and rear diff work correctly as they should). The rear lifted wheel will only turn slightly which is down to the internal opposition of the vcu. If you do the same test with the auto in neutral (neutral for manuals too) the front wheel will turn in the same direction as the rear wheel.

Note: when I say won't turn, it will turn but only approx 1 inch circumference or a few degrees, as opposed to turning round fully. This is the movement between the gear teeth only.
Click to expand...
 
When you think the fronts are spinning but the rears are not, is there any strange noise? Like banging.

You say the rears were not spinning, did you have someone looking at both sides of the car to see both rear wheels not spinining? Its easily possible for 1 rear to spin and the other not, I imagine the TC on the rear drums is not going to work that well and if there was a faulty sensor then you would have the 3 Amigos and TC would not have been enabled anyway.
 
GrumpyGel said:
When you think the fronts are spinning but the rears are not, is there any strange noise? Like banging.

You say the rears were not spinning, did you have someone looking at both sides of the car to see both rear wheels not spinining? Its easily possible for 1 rear to spin and the other not, I imagine the TC on the rear drums is not going to work that well and if there was a faulty sensor then you would have the 3 Amigos and TC would not have been enabled anyway.
Click to expand...

No noise at all. I look at the car myself and my friend drives it. I ordered both front sensors and I will replace them. Also my front left caliper is stuck a little bit some times so I will repair that as well. I will try to spin the wheels once it will by up in the garage and we will se if rear spins as well.
 
PetrVIVIVI said:
I ordered both front sensors and I will replace them.
Click to expand...

If you don't have any warning lights on the dash, the wheel sensors are fine.
The drive to the rear is a purely mechanical in operation, via the fluid in the VCU, and has nothing to do with the ABS/TC system. In fact ABS/TC was optional on early Freelander's and those still had a functional 4X4 system.
The electronic TC is only there to help, when tyre traction is lost.
 
Nodge68 said:
If you don't have any warning lights on the dash, the wheel sensors are fine.
The drive to the rear is a purely mechanical in operation, via the fluid in the VCU, and has nothing to do with the ABS/TC system. In fact ABS/TC was optional on early Freelander's and those still had a functional 4X4 system.
The electronic TC is only there to help, when tyre traction is lost.
Click to expand...

Hi Nodge68. Thank you for that information. This is what I looking for and you confirm this to me. So only thing that can fail in this case is VCU. I had reconditioned one with some
guarantee. Is there any easy way to check if my wheel speed sensors are working correctly?
 
There was a member in Portugal, not sure what his name was!, who had a local recon VCU that would not turn the back wheels. He had a new or reputable recon one sent over from the UK.
 
PetrVIVIVI said:
No noise at all. I look at the car myself and my friend drives it. I ordered both front sensors and I will replace them. Also my front left caliper is stuck a little bit some times so I will repair that as well. I will try to spin the wheels once it will by up in the garage and we will se if rear spins as well.
Click to expand...
One wheel up test will give you an idea if the VCU has been reconditioned properly.
 
guineafowl21 said:
One wheel up test will give you an idea if the VCU has been reconditioned properly.
Click to expand...

I did that test. Great guide by the way. My result is 53s 4.1kg weight.(car was still for 3hours after short trip)

Then I went to local offroad track and find a little hill. Went straight up and right from beginning car stops and left front wheel spins like no tomorow and right one has TC constantly kick in so it drags me to the left. I was about to give up but after 15s of constatnt spinning front wheels, rear wheels grab on and I was able to go all the way up hill. I am happy with that.

But i have couple of last questions.

1-did hippo need some time (spining front wheels) to ,,enable” power to the rear wheels?

2-if I will replace both front speed sensors is there some procedure to correctly setup(test) them or it is just simple swap?

Thak you all.
 
The vcu "activates" in a fraction of a second, if it is working as it should, to provide "activated" drive to the rear wheels.

If the front left wheel is spinning, the output (towards the rear wheels) via the pinion on the rear of the IRD (intermediate reduction drive = transfer box) will also be turning, as it is connected by gears to the same supply of power from the output of the gearbox which the front left wheel is connected to. If this is not happening then something is wrong. Either:

the connections through the ird are broken - power flow doesn't happen as something is missing/broken
the vcu isn't any good as it's not "activating" quick enough

To check the physical transmission, perform the tests I posted about in post 8.

To check the vcu in anger, mark the front and rear props with tape or a blob of paint, either side of the vcu. Fit a camera under the Freelander and film the tape/paint when you spin the front wheels, to see if the front prop is turning fast and the rear prop isn't.

Photo's of the content of the ird over ere: https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/freelander-1-ird-and-rear-diff-photos.280758/
 
Did you have someone watching while you did this? One of your rear wheels must have been spinning - answer to question 1 is: No. Rear drive is constant. That’s why you need a VCU to allow slip when going around a corner.

2: Speed sensors are a simple swap.

Get someone to check if the rear wheels spin or not when you’re off-road, and whether the prop spins. It could be a faulty IRD or even a slightly dodgy ‘dummy’ refurbished IRD which has no rear wheel drive, but looks normal from the outside.
 
PetrVIVIVI said:
I will replace both front speed sensors is there some procedure to correctly setup(test) them or it is just simple swap?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't actually be changing the wheel sensors unless they're faulty (lights on the dash). They can be a real pain to do and take hours each side. Sometimes the hub needs to come off, which needs a new wheel bearing and a 20 Ton press.
PetrVIVIVI said:
did hippo need some time (spining front wheels) to ,,enable” power to the rear wheels?
Click to expand...

No, power to rear should be instant. Did you have someone outside, checking that you weren't cross axled? If you have 2 wheels with minimal grip, the TC will brake the spinning wheels, which can make progress slow until tyres are in contact with the ground again.
 
53 seconds on a 1 wheel up test using a 4.1kg weight (assuming a bar of about 1.2m) is quite slow - this indicates that the VCU is 'tight' rather than 'loose' - this would imply that it would give more drive to the rear wheels, not less.

If a front looses traction, the VCU should 'lock up' immediately to give drive to the rear - not wait 15 seconds.

Going by your info that a rear wheel was not spining for 15 seconds, then starting providing drive, something is wrong in your setup.

My guess is that you have a reconditioned VCU and the manufacturer of it has not allowed the correct air gap. If the air gap is to great then the VCU will not achieve 'hump mode' - ie lock up, it will just be using the viscous drive supplied by the fluid.

I can not see it as being a fault in the IRD - if it were the IRD the gears would need to be slipping for 14 seconds and all of a sudden bite - it would make one hell of a lot of noise while the gears were slipping and I can't see how they would then engage - more likely blow the case to pieces.

Edit : Viscous drive by the fluid is, I believe, not sufficient to move a car up a hill - it needs hump mode to be activated. Rather than a 'dud' recon, it may be that the VCU has somehow lost some of its fluid - these are my thoughts.
 
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