FL2 Engine Stopped While Driving - Dropped Valve, Engine Swap

Sorry to hear about this next issue.
I don't think there's much difference in time between removing the engine or gearbox, especially as you've had practice at engine removal.

Nodge68 said:

Sorry to hear about this next issue.
I don't think there's much difference in time between removing the engine or gearbox, especially as you've had practice at engine removal.

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Yup, I think it's time to roll up my sleeves once again and get stuck in, I can probably do it in my sleep by now.

My wife is now pulling some "just take it to the garage" faces but I'm going to get this bloody thing running or die trying! The latter being the more likely outcome - of old age presumably .

Liking your determination.

Nodge68 said:

Liking your determination.

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It’s all I have left . If it doesn’t go this time she’s off to the scrappers!!

Keep going mate, Tell Her Indoors it's a project car and these sorts of setbacks are inevitable.

CaptainB said:

It’s all I have left . If it doesn’t go this time she’s off to the scrappers!!

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I'll buy the injectors off you if you do that. I'm after a working set to eliminate one of mine, before I spend £700 on a new set.

Nodge68 said:

I'll buy the injectors off you if you do that. I'm after a working set to eliminate one of mine, before I spend £700 on a new set.

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I do have a spare set that I pulled off my old engine that had 108k miles on it. They have been kept vertical to keep the fuel in them and I sealed them in clean plastic bags as soon as I removed them. If you're interested in them drop me a PM .

Alibro said:

Keep going mate, Tell Her Indoors it's a project car and these sorts of setbacks are inevitable.

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Thanks mate, I need all the support I can get at the moment . Project car, I like the sound of that. I reckon I can sell that to the Mrs.

OK, so I've just trudged back from the workshop. I have got the engine out (again!!), I'm getting quicker at it every time, just under 3 ½ hours this time, a new record .

When I came back in the house my Mrs said "you look beaten". She read me like a book.

When I was under the car I noticed a little black oil coming from the bell housing and daren't think about where it was coming from. When I got the engine out I pulled the flex plate off again and sure enough the f*****g crankshaft seal looks to be leaking. My heart sank, I could not believe it. I couldn't have been any more careful and methodical when installing it.



I need a holiday

I'm thinking there might be some damage or dirt on the crankshaft it's. It looks like it's leaking between the sealing lip and crankshaft, which can only be down to damage of the seal itself, or some form of damage on the crankshaft.
There is also the possibility that the new seal will "bed" itself to the crankshaft and seal up after a period of running.

CaptainB said:

I do have a spare set that I pulled off my old engine that had 108k miles on it. They have been kept vertical to keep the fuel in them and I sealed them in clean plastic bags as soon as I removed them. If you're interested in them drop me PM.

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Definitely interested in them.
I'll PM later in the week.

So sorry for you, nothing more demoralising than having to do a job twice let alone a third time, & not a small job to boot!
Are those seals double lipped? If so it looks like it could do with going in a tad more. Has the sealing surface on the crank any damage on it from seal removal or wear ?
All I can say, with a lot of admiration, is best of luck & hope you get it sorted. Happy New Year, if I dare.

Sadly the seal was always going to leak, once fitted it shouldn’t have to be held in place if fitted correctly, you need to make sure the lips don’t get pushed back when first fitting seal on crank

freelance said:

Sadly the seal was always going to leak, once fitted it shouldn’t have to be held in place if fitted correctly, you need to make sure the lips don’t get pushed back when first fitting seal on crank

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This makes sense as only two things could cause the seal to want to push out again, High pressure behind it (not likely) or the inner lip folded back on itself.
Sorry mate but now you've had practice you'll get it right this time.

Hi Paul.
Sorry to hear you have had to remove the engine again, you know the old saying third time lucky, all the kudos to you stick with it, by the weekend i bet you will have a smile on your face, and have done your first journey in the FL.

Thanks for all the support and advice guys, it really does help.

Does anyone know the specifications or dimensions of the LR tool that's used for setting crankshaft seals? When I removed the old one it was quite recessed and from looking at blurry pictures of the LR tool it seems to have a step which recesses the seal a certain distance before the edge of the tool contacts the block.

Andy Warren said:

So sorry for you, nothing more demoralising than having to do a job twice let alone a third time, & not a small job to boot!
Are those seals double lipped? If so it looks like it could do with going in a tad more. Has the sealing surface on the crank any damage on it from seal removal or wear ?
All I can say, with a lot of admiration, is best of luck & hope you get it sorted. Happy New Year, if I dare.

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Looking at the new seal closely in my photo I can see what appears to be a secondary lip on the inside of the seal which, because the seal wasn't inserted far enough, hasn't contacted the crankshaft at all and there's a tiny gap.

I don't think there is any damage or debris, I polished the crankshaft with very fine abrasives then flushed the whole area with clean oil and cleaned it up with paper towels before fitting the seal last time.

freelance said:

Sadly the seal was always going to leak, once fitted it shouldn’t have to be held in place if fitted correctly, you need to make sure the lips don’t get pushed back when first fitting seal on crank

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I must admit that I found it a bit strange that the seal wanted to push out. I'm 99.9% convinced that the inner lip wasn't folded back, I was really careful this time around.

Alibro said:

This makes sense as only two things could cause the seal to want to push out again, High pressure behind it (not likely) or the inner lip folded back on itself.
Sorry mate but now you've had practice you'll get it right this time.

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I really hope so, if not you'll probably hear the scream in NI.

Arctic2 said:

Sorry to hear you have had to remove the engine again, you know the old saying third time lucky, all the kudos to you stick with it, by the weekend i bet you will have a smile on your face, and have done your first journey in the FL.

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Thanks mate. It really was demoralising this time as I'd spent so much time putting everything back together so carefully. I'm not sure it'll happen by the weekend (I love your optimism though!) but yeah, it'll happen.

Nodge68 said:

There is also the possibility that the new seal will "bed" itself to the crankshaft and seal up after a period of running.

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This did cross my mind. if there had just been a few drips of engine oil I'd have left it in place and run it for a while but the trickle of ATF necessitated the engine removal this time around.

When this is all over I'll rename this thread taking inspiration from Kelly McGillis' line in Top Gun when she said "The encounter was a victory, but I think that we've shown it as an example of what not to do.".

I'll see if I can find the seal insertion data. It's pretty unusual for a seal to be pressed below the surface though, but it's a French engine, so anything is possible.

Not taking any chances this time around, bought the genuine LR (made by Corteco it seems) seal. It feels much more substantial than the Payen or Febi ones I've tried. This one also came with very clear instructions which I'll be following to the letter. The only thing it doesn't really specify is the recommended insertion depth .

Thinking logically about it, the crankshaft is a solid surface and the engine block is too. In theory the insertion depth shouldn't be critical as long as the sealing surfaces of the oil seal are all fully contacting both solid surfaces, right?? That said, I'd rather do it by the book this time and eliminate as many possible causes of failure as possible.

This is going to be the last time I'm doing this job so I just bit the bullet and bought the Laser 6133 (LR 303-538) crankshaft seal tool. I figured I can sell it on again when I'm done with it. Bizarrely Halfords were the cheapest with next day delivery! They do seem to be more sensible on a lot of their prices these days.

Can you check the mounting depth on the old engine? That's what I'd do.

CaptainB said:

This is going to be the last time I'm doing this job so I just bit the bullet and bought the Laser 6133 (LR 303-538) crankshaft seal tool. I figured I can sell it on again when I'm done with it. Bizarrely Halfords were the cheapest with next day delivery! They do seem to be more sensible on a lot of their prices these days.

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It might be worth checking the tool before you use it as they are not always the quality you would expect.
These guys talk a lot about the Chinese tools and how well they work.

Hi,looking back at the picture you posted when removing the broken bolt it gives you a good idea of how far that original seal was in, following on the first seal replacement, going by the picture was maybe to far in & the last one maybe not far enough? Hard to tell exactly but if you have any more pictures (before you took the orginal out) they could be useful as a guide, all the best & I've got every thing crossed for ya.