FL2 Engine Stopped While Driving - Dropped Valve, Engine Swap

Andy Warren said:

Hi,looking back at the picture you posted when removing the broken bolt it gives you a good idea of how far that original seal was in, following on the first seal replacement, going by the picture was maybe to far in & the last one maybe not far enough? Hard to tell exactly but if you have any more pictures (before you took the orginal out) they could be useful as a guide, all the best & I've got every thing crossed for ya.

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Good thinking.
The original seal is in to the bottom of the chamfered edge of the block, maybe about 3mm. So the new needs pressing in to the bottom of the chamfer for it to be in the correct place.

Perhaps there is a lip in the rear of the cavity, so the seal is pressed all the way back?

Thanks for all the tips, suggestions and moral support everyone. The oil seal tool arrives tomorrow to I am going to get back in the workshop and sort it once and for all . As I was also losing ATF I'm going to replace the TC oil seal as I'm assuming that is the cause of that leak. I replaced it before I fitted the engine the first time and clearly something wasn't right. Again, I inserted it to around the same depth as the seal that I removed and I thought I had taken enough care to get it straight and not fold back the inner lip. I've bought a genuine LR seal for it this time. The last one was supplied by the company that did the TC rebuild and I'm guessing it wasn't an LR part so hopefully this will rectify the problem.

I know that it's a similar job to fitting the crankshaft oil seal but has anyone fitted one of these before and have any words of wisdom? Most pictures I've seen of TC seals show them flush fitting but the one I took out was recessed as far as I remember. Looking at the LR manual it seems to show the seal inserted until it contacts the bottom of the recess. I'll have a really good close look tomorrow when I get the TC out again.

CaptainB said:

Thanks for all the tips, suggestions and moral support everyone. The oil seal tool arrives tomorrow to I am going to get back in the workshop and sort it once and for all . As I was also losing ATF I'm going to replace the TC oil seal as I'm assuming that is the cause of that leak. I replaced it before I fitted the engine the first time and clearly something wasn't right. Again, I inserted it to around the same depth as the seal that I removed and I thought I had taken enough care to get it straight and not fold back the inner lip. I've bought a genuine LR seal for it this time. The last one was supplied by the company that did the TC rebuild and I'm guessing it wasn't an LR part so hopefully this will rectify the problem.

I know that it's a similar job to fitting the crankshaft oil seal but has anyone fitted one of these before and have any words of wisdom? Most pictures I've seen of TC seals show them flush fitting but the one I took out was recessed as far as I remember. Looking at the LR manual it seems to show the seal inserted until it contacts the bottom of the recess. I'll have a really good close look tomorrow when I get the TC out again.

View attachment 306755

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Hi Paul.
I am presuming you have seen and this this below ?

Arctic2 said:

Hi Paul.
I am presuming you have seen and this this below ?

Range Rover Evoque - Torque Converter Seal GTDi 2.0L Petrol - Automatic Transmission/Transaxle

www.rrevoque.org

https://jlrequipment.service-solutions.com/en-GB/Pages/ItemListing.aspx?catID=582867

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Yes, I found that same page . It looks almost identical to the FL2 manual, presumably it the same AT in the FL2 and the early Evoque.

After ordering the seal fitting tool from Halfords I had an email to say that it was going to be delayed and wasn't going to arrive until late next week. With that news I decided to try and make a replica tool. I have studied pictures of the Laser tool and tried to measure some of the dimensions from images then scale the dimensions based upon known dimensions.

I went in the workshop on Friday morning with a plan of what I was going to make and set about looking for a suitable piece of wood. I found a good block of straight grained softwood with no knots or weaknesses and put it on the lathe. With some careful turning, measuring and drilling I had something which I thought looked pretty similar to the Laser tool.




I cleaned the recess really thoroughly and ran some Scothbrite around the crankshaft surface to really polish it up then cleaned it again for good measure.



I put the applicator on to the crankshaft and slowly started to ease the seal into the recess.



Once the seal was clear of the applicator I removed it and used my homemade tool to slowly ease the seal into place checking for squareness as I went.

The difference between the tool I made and the Laser tool is that I'd made mine to bottom out in the face on the end of the crankshaft whereas the Laser tool bottoms out on the block face. After I had inserted the seal as far as the tool would let it would go I removed the tooling checked the insertion depth all around. It was within 0.25mm all the way around and I was happy enough at that. I figured that if I tried to improve on that I'd probably make it worse.



I was getting ready for a brew so I popped back to the house only to find a parcel on the doorstep... from Halfords... the Laser tool had arrived far earlier than anticipated! I couldn't believe it. I opened it up and measured the insertion depth that it would set the seal at. It was hard to measure as it was in a sealed packet (I figured I'd leave it wrapped and then at least I could return it) but it looked to be about 2mm and mine was about 3mm so I think all should be well.

Next I turned my attention to the TC oil seal. I pulled out the TC and couldn't see anything obviously wrong with the seal.



The original seal came out fairly easily but this one put up more of a fight. I eventually popped it out and got a face-full of ATF as it flew in my direction. I cleaned up the recess very carefully and looked around for any signs of damage but couldn't see anything.



At this point I decided that I should try and find something to push the seal home with and started looking around for something suitable. Given that I didn't want to pull the engine out again I made the decision to try and make a drift and do the job right. I found that a timing belt tensioner is just the right diameter to push the seal in with so I punched the bearing out of the centre to leave it hollow. Looking at the LR diagram the seal face is flush with the outer surface and the tensioner was too small to come to rest on that face so it was back to the lathe.

I made a cylinder and hollowed it out then created a slightly tapered recess for the tensioner to fit tightly into. I pressed the tensioner in firmly then cut off and squared up the protruding part of the tensioner leaving it flush with the wood outer.



The new seal was a genuine LR part and while Haynes says to apply ATF to the seal clearly LR has a different approach. The seal was pre greased on the inside face. I was wary about this as I thought it might contaminate the ATF but then I figured LR should know what they are doing so I positioned the seal in place and slowly started to push it in to place. When I couldn't push it any further by hand I used the drift and a lump hammer to tap it home. I did one tap then removed the drift and checked for squareness, then tapped again, checked again until it was home.

I had the car up on stands and I was sat under the car with my torso up in the engine bay, it must have looked pretty comical . I grabbed the TC (which is pretty heavy, especially when full of ATF) and slowly manoeuvred it into place. There are three positive stops and it slides onto the first shaft, then the second and then drops into the lugs for the pump drive (??). Give it a quick spin to make sure it spins freely and smoothly then it's time to drop the engine in again.

I decided I was only going to connect up the essentials to test the engine this time, if all was well I'd then take my time and connect everything else up making sure it was all done right.

It was about 8pm when I had the engine back in place, the AT was bolted to the engine, the flex plate was bolted up, the fuel and electrics were connected. I was going to start it up but I was knackered and thought I should get some kip and come back to it in the morning with fresh eyes and just double check everything before firing up.

Saturday morning, I gave the engine a quick check over and decided that I'd go for it. I started her up and after working out a few air bubbles in the fuel lines she ran smoothly. Then I grabbed my inspection lamp and got down under the car for the moment of truth... I don't want to be overly dramatic about this but I was properly nervous, my heart was pounding, would it be spewing oil again?

No, it wasn't. I didn't dare believe that it might actually be ok. I left the engine running for 5 minutes and still didn't see anything coming from underneath. I wanted to be relieved but I couldn't let myself in case it all went to s41t again.

I set about putting the rest of the engine bay back together, half-shaft back in, wishbone back in place, wheel on, down off the jack and fill up with coolant again. I started her up again and let her run for about 20 minutes, still no leaks.

I did the ATF top up and went through the P > R > N > D > N > R > P sequence, all sounded ok so I thought I'd go for it and see if she'll move under her own steam. I backed out of the workshop and did a couple of laps around the garden. There were a couple of little splutters and the low coolant warning came up so I got back in the workshop topped up the coolant turned out the lights and called it a day.

I'm going to take a spin up the lane today and see if the gear changes are ok and if that goes well I'll try a slightly longer run. Fingers well and truly crossed .

Edit: Added a picture of the homemade drift.

Crossing everything here for you, can't believe you've done this tbh what a mission! Fair play and well done, hope you don't get any more setbacks

Well done.

Looking at the newly installed crank oil seal, I'd say it's in roughly the same location as the old one, and as your wooden tool was cut on a lathe, it will also be in square, so has a good chance of sealing.
Just out of interest, you didn't use any form of lubrication on the sealing lip did you? They are coated in a special beading lubricant from the factory, which is damaged by additional lubricant.

Nodge68 said:

Well done.

Looking at the newly installed crank oil seal, I'd say it's in roughly the same location as the old one, and as your wooden tool was cut on a lathe, it will also be in square, so has a good chance of sealing.
Just out of interest, you didn't use any form of lubrication on the sealing lip did you? They are coated in a special beading lubricant from the factory, which is damaged by additional lubricant.

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Thanks Nodge .

It does look to be in a very similar location to the original and it is now very squarely set.

Last time around I did use a very thin smear of grease on the inner lip. That will teach me to ask my "old" mechanic mate for advice! The new one came with specific instructions not to lubricate either face and I followed that advice to the letter.

Ladies and Gentlemen, drum roll please...

I think we have a winner!



I'm still holding my breath a little bit, just in case something goes horribly wrong. I finished putting the car back together again today. I did a few more checks and topped up the fluids etc. and then fired her up for a quick run up the lane. She flew up the steep driveway and off I went up the lane. I got so far and all seemed well until there was a sudden loss of power and rough running. I limped back home and had another look around the engine bay. I had forgot to connect sensor plug on the air filter box, could that be it?

I fired up again and off we went up the lane and off up the main road. I did about 4 miles and it was faultless. It did feel very slightly down on power but then I haven't driven it for almost 3 months so maybe I'm mistaken.

I got home and looked under the engine, not a drop of anything to be seen. I breathed a massive sigh of relief and smiled from ear to ear. I still need to get a laptop set up with SDD diagnostics to code the injectors, fettle the air flow and to reset the fault codes from when she went bang, but that's a job for another day. I've got 3 months' worth of "odd jobs" to catch up on and Mrs B will be cracking the whip!

I want to say a huge thanks to everyone who has helped and supported me through this ordeal, I genuinely could not have done this without you all. My perseverance has been fuelled by knowing that you guys have got my back. There have been dark times when I thought about throwing in the towel but it's not in my nature to quit and I know that there's a solution to every problem, it just needs some thought (and a big mug of tea!).

Cheers Guys

Congrats and well done for staying with it.

I couldn't contribute as the F2 is new to me and haven't worked on one but have shared your pain on many a Freelander 1.

Hope it stays good now to repay you!!

andyfreelandy said:

Congrats and well done for staying with it.

I couldn't contribute as the F2 is new to me and haven't worked on one but have shared your pain on many a Freelander 1.

Hope it stays good now to repay you!!

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Likewise I wasn't able to help but can attest to the support on this forum helping get me through difficult times too.
Well done for sticking at it and ignoring the "burn it" brigade.

CaptainB said:

Ladies and Gentlemen, drum roll please...

I think we have a winner!



I'm still holding my breath a little bit, just in case something goes horribly wrong. I finished putting the car back together again today. I did a few more checks and topped up the fluids etc. and then fired her up for a quick run up the lane. She flew up the steep driveway and off I went up the lane. I got so far and all seemed well until there was a sudden loss of power and rough running. I limped back home and had another look around the engine bay. I had forgot to connect sensor plug on the air filter box, could that be it?

I fired up again and off we went up the lane and off up the main road. I did about 4 miles and it was faultless. It did feel very slightly down on power but then I haven't driven it for almost 3 months so maybe I'm mistaken.

I got home and looked under the engine, not a drop of anything to be seen. I breathed a massive sigh of relief and smiled from ear to ear. I still need to get a laptop set up with SDD diagnostics to code the injectors, fettle the air flow and to reset the fault codes from when she went bang, but that's a job for another day. I've got 3 months' worth of "odd jobs" to catch up on and Mrs B will be cracking the whip!

I want to say a huge thanks to everyone who has helped and supported me through this ordeal, I genuinely could not have done this without you all. My perseverance has been fuelled by knowing that you guys have got my back. There have been dark times when I thought about throwing in the towel but it's not in my nature to quit and I know that there's a solution to every problem, it just needs some thought (and a big mug of tea!).

Cheers Guys

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Excellent news.

Once you've done all the calibrations, injector coding and air path calibration, you should find the power is back to how it should be.

It could also be the engine needs a good run, as these things soot up when used for short journeys, but after a couple of hours on the motorway, they really come back on song.

Hi Paul.
Only just catching up on this, seems i am not getting updates when people post, love the tools you made out of wood, and they seem to have done the job for you, as above congratulations on sticking with the task in hand and pushing through the dark days they can sometimes stop us from going forward, always best to walk away for a few days and go back at with fresh vigour.

Hopefully you can now have some good Freelandering in the future without having to touch the car again for a while.

I did my diff drain plug today drilled and tapped it, the oil comes out great once drilled, got full 700ml out will post up later all the photos on my thread.

Arctic2 said:

Hi Paul.
Only just catching up on this, seems i am not getting updates when people post, love the tools you made out of wood, and they seem to have done the job for you, as above congratulations on sticking with the task in hand and pushing through the dark days they can sometimes stop us from going forward, always best to walk away for a few days and go back at with fresh vigour.

Hopefully you can now have some good Freelandering in the future without having to touch the car again for a while.

I did my diff drain plug today drilled and tapped it, the oil comes out great once drilled, got full 700ml out will post up later all the photos on my thread.

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Hi Steve,
Many thanks mate, the support from you and everyone else has been invaluable along with the brilliant library of knowledge that this site has become thanks to contributions from folks like yourself.

I am really hoping for a period of trouble-free motoring though I am slightly nervous about straying too far from home at the moment but I'm sure that as I do more miles in it my confidence in the car will return.

Tapping the diff is a job that I've thought about doing for a while now. I'll be looking out for your thread and, when I'm over this ordeal, I'll be playing along at home if the weather warms up a bit .

Well, it's been about 3 weeks since I got the old FL2 back on the road and she seems to be behaving very well.

I am really hoping that I never have to do a FL2 crankshaft seal change again so if anyone is interested in the tool that I made to set the seal just drop me a PM and I'll send it on to you. Likewise with the tool I made for doing the TC seal.

I'm glad it's working as it should.
I don't need the seal tool though, but someone might.

Hi Paul.
Nice to hear that the FL is playing the game for you, hopefully now you will have some trouble free motoring for a while.
Quick note to the admin I'm not getting any updates or alerts to when someone adds or posts on threads i have answered to or following, so any help please drop me a PM

Well after initially having the FL2 performing happily it was parked up for a few weeks. Then, when I drove it last week it was very limp and lifeless.

I thought it had gone into limp mode but there's no warning light, it just has no power at all. My mate came over with his diagnostic reader (I still haven't sorted myself out with SDD on a laptop!) and we coded the injectors. He ran the full sequence of checks and got a handful of error codes:

P0489-00 - Exhaust gas recirculation control - circuit low
P042E-00 - Exhaust gas recirculation control - stuck open
P0380-00 - Glow plug control circuit
P02E0-13 - Diesel intake air flow control - Open circuit
P02E1-00 - Diesel intake air flow control - Performance

It's the last two that I'm thinking might be the root of the problem. @Nodge68 had mentioned about doing the air path calibration after swapping the engine, could that be the root of the problem? Or is it more likely to be something physical that I need to poke around with such as the throttle body etc?

The EGR valve actuator isn't functioning, and is stuck open. Was this a replacement with the engine, or the original.

The intake air flow control is referring to the throttle body. It's saying that there's no connection to it, so possibly a wiring fault or an internal fault with the TB itself.

Glow circuit could be a relay, but isn't connected to the other faults.

Nodge68 said:

The EGR valve actuator isn't functioning, and is stuck open. Was this a replacement with the engine, or the original.

The intake air flow control is referring to the throttle body. It's saying that there's no connection to it, so possibly a wiring fault or an internal fault with the TB itself.

Glow circuit could be a relay, but isn't connected to the other faults.

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The EGR assembly was all supplied with the new engine.

The TB could be something as daft as me forgetting to connect the plug to it?? I’ll have a look when I get home.

It would be nice if the glow circuit was a relay as I’ve got all the ones that came off the old engine.

Many thanks