FL2 Engine Stopped While Driving - Dropped Valve, Engine Swap

Arctic2 said:

Wow this is a fantastic thread and a great learning thread for us all i would say, photos are excellent too, you are doing some very good work here, that will help others in the future my hat is off to you, also Nodge is on board so you cannot find any better advice, i have just bought a timing belts kit my self from Autodoc.

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Thank you @Arctic2 , that's really great to hear and it certainly helps with morale . If just one person can benefit from anything I post here then my work is done and I'm happy.

I am grateful beyond words for all the help from @Nodge68, I would not have made it this far without him.

Over on another FL forum I had a thread running a while back about not being able to remove the fill cap from the auto box. I had tried a 2' breaker bar with an extension and it still wouldn't shift even with two of us pulling on it! My mate has a biggish Makita impact driver but that wouldn't touch it either. I ended up stripping the torx drive on the cap.

With my torque converter out at the moment I know I'm going to have to top up the ATF so this afternoon I made it my mission to get the cap off by welding a big nut to it.

I removed the A/T controller from the top of the box to give me more room to manoeuvre and avoid damaging it. The old cap was really rusty so first job was to hit it with the flap disc in the grinder and make the top face shiny again. To remove the rust from down in the centre I bored it out a little with a 12mm drill bit then gave it a blast of brake cleaner.

While that was evaporating off I went and found the biggest nut I had, ground one face to clean it up and drilled it out through the centre to remove the threads and expose clean steel. I got some very wet rags and placed them all around the area to protect it and to try and draw some of the heat away from the transmission. I sat the nut on top of the old cap and started to weld spots around the inside of the nut to tack it to the cap. When I was happy it was in the right place I welded right around the inside and created a pool of weld in the middle to make sure it had some real bite.

When it had cooled down I got my breaker bar with a 32mm socket and prepared to do battle! I reckon I could have almost undone it with my fingers, clearly the heat of the weld was enough to break the seal, I'm just hoping that it hasn't had any unintended consequences.

I've just had an email to say that my TC is on it's way back to me. I have to say that the folk at Sussex Autos have been amazing. They collected the TC from me on Wednesday and two days later it's rebuilt, repaired, boxed up and heading back to me. They said it had a burnt lock-up plate which means very little to me but if it cures the juddering problem that has plagued the car the whole 4 years I've had it I'll be a happy bloke. For £300 all-in it seems like decent value to me.

CaptainB said:

I've just had an email to say that my TC is on it's way back to me. I have to say that the folk at Sussex Autos have been amazing. They collected the TC from me on Wednesday and two days later it's rebuilt, repaired, boxed up and heading back to me. They said it had a burnt lock-up plate which means very little to me but if it cures the juddering problem that has plagued the car the whole 4 years I've had it I'll be a happy bloke. For £300 all-in it seems like decent value to me.

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Hi Captain.
That is a quick turn round, like you i was wondering what is a lock up plate, has your replacement engine arrived yet, that filler nut was a nightmare by the looks of it, you are doing great keep up the faith and hard work you will get there in the end, we are all wishing you well.

Arctic2 said:

Hi Captain.
That is a quick turn round, like you i was wondering what is a lock up plate, has your replacement engine arrived yet, that filler nut was a nightmare by the looks of it, you are doing great keep up the faith and hard work you will get there in the end, we are all wishing you well.

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Thanks Mate

The new engine arrived this morning but I haven't unwrapped it yet. It appears to be on it's side so I hope it hasn't damaged anything in transit. The TC is coming this afternoon and I'm hoping to get cracking while the sun is shining but I've hit a snag.

I am struggling to move the car. It's on a fairly level driveway and I thought that if I could get the car into neutral a couple of us should be able to push it out of the drive to get the new engine up the drive and then push the car back in to fit it. I've pulled off the trim around the gear selector and pushed the yellow release tab to enable the selector to move. I slid the lever back to neutral and confirmed on the AT controller that it is in N but I still can't roll the car. I tried giving it a bit of a pull with my wife's Polo just in case the brakes had seized or something but it steadfastly refused to budge.

Is there any reason that the transmission wouldn't actually go into neutral because there's no battery connected? Does the AT use solenoids to release something in there? Could I damage anything by connecting the battery without the ECM in the car?

Well with a huge amount of grunt work and a bit of help from my wife and the lady next door we managed to get the engine around the side of the car and into position without moving the car. It took about 3 hours all up but it's there.

It was raining on and off this morning so I didn't unwrap the engine until I had it in front of the car and the weather looked a bit better. Man, I wish I had unwrapped it earlier. The engine looks much dirtier than the one I took out but I thought it could be that it's from a car that's lived on a farm etc. However, it didn't feel like the 84k miles engine that I was supposed to have received. There was a registration number painted on it so I looked it up on the MOT check site only to find that the last MOT was in August 2022 when it had almost 144k on the clock!

Needless to say I've contacted the seller (through eBay so there's a record of messages) to express my dissatisfaction!

As if that wasn't enough when the delivery driver dropped the pallet off this morning he ripped the fascia board and leadwork off the side of the house so I now have to do battle with the transport company as well.

I'm feeling like someone up there doesn't like me today .

What a bummer. You're having a right old time of it. It seems nobody is honest anymore, and people simply don't care about other people property. Does the engine even look like the one on the ebay listing? There's a big difference in value between an 80k engine and a 140k+ engine.
Did you pay with a visa or mastercard? If so you have the claim back guarantee to fall back on. I've had to use this a couple of times over the years for items not as described.
Good luck.

CaptainB said:

There was a registration number painted on it so I looked it up on the MOT check site only to find that the last MOT was in August 2022 when it had almost 144k on the clock!

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W@nkers!

CaptainB said:

As if that wasn't enough when the delivery driver dropped the pallet off this morning he ripped the fascia board and leadwork off the side of the house so I now have to do battle with the transport company as well.

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W@nker!

Nodge68 said:

What a bummer. You're having a right old time of it. It seems nobody is honest anymore, and people simply don't care about other people property. Does the engine even look like the one on the ebay listing? There's a big difference in value between an 80k engine and a 140k+ engine.
Did you pay with a visa or mastercard? If so you have the claim back guarantee to fall back on. I've had to use this a couple of times over the years for items not as described.
Good luck.

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I certainly feel like I’m been put through the wringer .

I called eBay this afternoon to sound them out about it and basically said that as long as I have the proof the seller doesn’t have a leg to stand on and will have to pay to get the engine collected as well as refunding me in full.

It’s the time and effort that I’m really annoyed about. I spent a good few hours looking for a decent engine and then the time and effort humping it around today. Now I need to start all over again looking for another and I’ll be waiting for the refund on the first before I buy another, I’d hate to be lumbered with two engines.

I thought about rebuilding my old engine around a new block. At least then I know exactly what’s gone into it and I’m not taking a chance on a potentially dodgy engine. It’s not something I would have considered a few weeks ago but I’ve come a long way in a those few weeks and feel much more confident tackling a project like that. That said, I was really looking forward to just dropping the new lump in under the bonnet and driving off into the sunset .

1988smithy said:

W@nkers!


W@nker!

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Amen to that my friend!! What a day!

Still smiling though

CaptainB said:

I certainly feel like I’m been put through the wringer .

I called eBay this afternoon to sound them out about it and basically said that as long as I have the proof the seller doesn’t have a leg to stand on and will have to pay to get the engine collected as well as refunding me in full.

It’s the time and effort that I’m really annoyed about. I spent a good few hours looking for a decent engine and then the time and effort humping it around today. Now I need to start all over again looking for another and I’ll be waiting for the refund on the first before I buy another, I’d hate to be lumbered with two engines.

I thought about rebuilding my old engine around a new block. At least then I know exactly what’s gone into it and I’m not taking a chance on a potentially dodgy engine. It’s not something I would have considered a few weeks ago but I’ve come a long way in a those few weeks and feel much more confident tackling a project like that. That said, I was really looking forward to just dropping the new lump in under the bonnet and driving off into the sunset .

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Would you be happy using that engine if you got a decent part refund?

1988smithy said:

Would you be happy using that engine if you got a decent part refund?

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I don’t think so. I took the accessory belt off and it was very stiff and kept its shape which I suspect means that it’s been stood idle for quite some time. For all I know it might be a perfectly good, well maintained engine… but it might not be and I don’t want to pull out an engine again.

What do you think? Might as it be worth a pop if the price is right? At that sort of mileage I start to get nervous.

CaptainB said:

I don’t think so. I took the accessory belt off and it was very stiff and kept its shape which I suspect means that it’s been stood idle for quite some time. For all I know it might be a perfectly good, well maintained engine… but it might not be and I don’t want to pull out an engine again.

What do you think? Might as it be worth a pop if the price is right? At that sort of mileage I start to get nervous.

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I don't know man, its a bit leggy isn't it? Did you turn it over at all? Like you say, probably might as well rebuild the original cuz that ebay one probably needs going thru anyway! Its easy for me to say get a better one but I think you probably should kick it back and hold out for a better one, got to be better in the long run?

1988smithy said:

I don't know man, its a bit leggy isn't it? Did you turn it over at all? Like you say, probably might as well rebuild the original cuz that ebay one probably needs going thru anyway! Its easy for me to say get a better one but I think you probably should kick it back and hold out for a better one, got to be better in the long run?

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I didn't try turning it over. I was about to try and remove the crankshaft pulley so that I could do the timing belt when I decided to investigate the engine's history. I'm really glad I did it in that order because those crank pulley bolts are stubborn *&%$s!

Having slept on it I've decided to send the engine back and I'll keep looking for another. Now that I've calmed down a bit I had a proper look over the engine this morning and it makes my decision to reject it easier. The sump is all bashed out of shape and there has been no attempt to cover the inlet to the high pressure pump so that could all be full of crud. Less worrying but still ringing alarm bells for me are that the common rail is quite rusty (my old one was really clean at 108k miles) and the bottom half of the engine is very thick with oil. I hope something decent comes up soon though as I really want to have the FL2 back on the road before the weather turns bad.

CaptainB said:

I am struggling to move the car. It's on a fairly level driveway and I thought that if I could get the car into neutral a couple of us should be able to push it out of the drive to get the new engine up the drive and then push the car back in to fit it. I've pulled off the trim around the gear selector and pushed the yellow release tab to enable the selector to move. I slid the lever back to neutral and confirmed on the AT controller that it is in N but I still can't roll the car. I tried giving it a bit of a pull with my wife's Polo just in case the brakes had seized or something but it steadfastly refused to budge.

Is there any reason that the transmission wouldn't actually go into neutral because there's no battery connected? Does the AT use solenoids to release something in there? Could I damage anything by connecting the battery without the ECM in the car?

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I'm going to jack up the wheels today and see if they rotate so I can rule out brake seizure. If I get both back wheels off the ground, chock the front wheels and release the handbrake they should rotate alternately courtesy of the rear diff right?

I've got the front-right half shaft out, if I take out the front-left as well then both front wheels should rotate freely. If the A/T is locking the drive (because no battery is connected??) would the best course of action be to disconnect the prop-shaft at the PTU and strap it up out of the way to free up the rear wheels? Or should I remove it completely?

Hi CaptainB
I have dropped you a PM with a chaps name and phone number whom is just starting to break the FL2 he used to do all the Rover 75 MGZT and loads of us used him for good decent second hand parts, he may have an engine.

Arctic2 said:

Hi CaptainB
I have dropped you a PM with a chaps name and phone number whom is just starting to break the FL2 he used to do all the Rover 75 MGZT and loads of us used him for good decent second hand parts, he may have an engine.

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Many thanks mate. I’ll check that out

CaptainB said:

Many thanks mate. I’ll check that out

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Hi CapB.
Message sent i have just given him a ring, he has a couple of engines still in the cars, i told him i passed his number onto you, so use the personal number, not the ebay one added to the address etc.

CaptainB said:

I'm going to jack up the wheels today and see if they rotate so I can rule out brake seizure. If I get both back wheels off the ground, chock the front wheels and release the handbrake they should rotate alternately courtesy of the rear diff right?

I've got the front-right half shaft out, if I take out the front-left as well then both front wheels should rotate freely. If the A/T is locking the drive (because no battery is connected??) would the best course of action be to disconnect the prop-shaft at the PTU and strap it up out of the way to free up the rear wheels? Or should I remove it completely?

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I got the back wheels off the ground and tried to rotate them. Back right moved a few degrees and clunked to a stop, back left didn't move at all. I pulled the back-left wheel off and I could see that the brake pads were clear of the disc and I could gently pry the pads and move them around so they aren't seized.

Next I tried pulling the handbrake lever a few times to see if the mechanism was sticky. The lever didn't move far so I slackened off the tensioner nut and the knobbly thingy (through the hole in the disc) and tried to rotate the wheels again. Back-left now moved, albeit very begrudgingly, but back-right was still the same. I took the calliper and disc off the back left and the disc was pretty corroded on the face that contacts the parking brake shoes so I gave it a rub with some sandpaper and tried it again. It was slightly better but not great.

I took a look at the shoes and realised that they weren't moving smoothly. I removed the retaining clips (Satan's work!) and levered the shoes away from the back plate. I rubbed down the contact points and gave it a little blast of WD40 to see if that would help but the shoes were still sticking badly. I'll have a read up on it tonight and try and tackle it in the morning.

With the disc off the back-left and the hub rotating I expected the back-right to rotate in the opposite direction through the diff. With the back-right locked it rotated the prop shaft instead and I imagine it's turning the front right but with the half shaft out I can't tell for sure.

I'm perplexed about why the back-right is locked though. I'll pull that wheel off tomorrow and see if that is handbrake related but it didn't feel like it.

In my experience, the shoe based parking brake needs to be stripped, cleaned, lubricated, reassembled and readjusted every year, or it has a tendency to seize. I do mine before the MOT, which pretty much guarantees a brake pass.