FL2 Engine Stopped While Driving - Dropped Valve, Engine Swap

Nodge68 said:

No need to replace the cam, but depending in what condition the piston and head are in, you might be replacing the whole unit anyway.

Click to expand...

- I'll find out in the morning, hoping for the best but planning for the worst!

CaptainB said:

- I'll find out in the morning, hoping for the best but planning for the worst!

Click to expand...

I had to replace a piston on mine, because a previous repair person dropped an EGR pipe nut into the intake, then started the engine, where the nut whet into No2 cylinder destroying the piston and head.

Nodge68 said:

I had to replace a piston on mine, because a previous repair person dropped an EGR pipe nut into the intake, then started the engine, where the nut whet into No2 cylinder destroying the piston and head.View attachment 301430

Click to expand...

Ouch! You must have been livid. Did they shoulder the blame or did they squirm their way out of it?

While I've got the head off (and assuming it isn't a complete write-off) I was thinking I might as well replace the valve seals and hone the valve seats. Is it worth also replacing the valve guides? Any recommendations on a valve spring compressor tool? I've seen a few different types but this one seems to get good reviews:

Amazon product

I don't like buying cheap tools but as it might now see service again for years I'm reluctant to spend a lot on one. Or is it better to get one that can be used in situ?

Great news, I've located the missing valve...

unfortunately it's lodged in the cylinder and appears to have chewed up the piston and the head

I didn't get a chance to have a proper look at it before the rain set in again so I just grabbed a few quick pics. I'm praying for minimal cylinder damage but I'm guessing that I'm looking at a new piston, it looks pretty chewed up. The head looks a bit gouged but I've no idea if it's still usable.

I will be amazed if that bore is OK

Kev12 said:

I will be amazed if that bore is OK

Click to expand...

Me too . I’ve just got out and had a closer look. The valve did just drop out as soon as I touched it so it wasn’t completely buried in there. Here’s some close ups of the cylinder damage:






At this point I think I have 4 options, scrap the car, buy a replacement block, buy a replacement engine, get this block sorted out. Any opinions?

Any of the last three options will obviously make this a bit of a project and I’ll have to move the car into my workshop which will be a challenge in itself - it’s down a very steep, twisting, muddy driveway then up a ramp into the workshop. Will the electrics be ok if I switch on the release the steering lock? Will I have any braking at all?

That's not good.
Aren't the cylinders in these replaceable sleeves though?
Its a question. It was something that has been said that makes me think they are.

Without closer inspection first I reckon the head will cleanup ok.
But as stated I know nothing of these engines.

J

marjon said:

That's not good.
Aren't the cylinders in these replaceable sleeves though?
Its a question. It was something that has been said that makes me think they are.

Click to expand...

That would be good if they are. I'll look into that, thanks.

marjon said:

Without closer inspection first I reckon the head will cleanup ok.
But as stated I know nothing of these engines.

Click to expand...

I've had a better look at the head this afternoon and I think it's probably going to be ok. A couple of new valves and a bit of light filing/sanding to smooth it out and hopefully that will be enough.

You're going to need a replacement engine. The damage to the bore is too bad, much worse than mine.
If it was just a piston, then a replacement piston and rod could have been used, but that much bore damage renders the block scrap. The liners aren't replaceable on this engine, being pressed in at the time of manufacture.

You can get a sensible mileage replacement engine for about £700 + shipping, then it makes sense to do the timing belt at the same time.

I know what caused this issue though, I've seen it before on a PSA engine. I suspect the rocker on that valve has slipped sideways off the valve stem, and started opening the valve on against the spring retainer instead. This has allowed the spring retainer to shift on the collets allowing them to displace, resulting in the valve dropping into the combustion chamber.

Nodge68 said:

You're going to need a replacement engine. The damage to the bore is too bad, much worse than mine.
If it was just a piston, then a replacement piston and rod could have been used, but that much bore damage renders the block scrap.

Click to expand...

I feared it might come to this.

Nodge68 said:

You can get a sensible mileage replacement engine for about £700 + shipping, then it makes sense to do the timing belt at the same time.

Click to expand...

I'll start scouting around for a decent engine. Do you know if it's true that you need to get the ECU programmed when you install a replacement engine?

Nodge68 said:

I know what caused this issue though, I've seen it before on a PSA engine. I suspect the rocker on that valve has slipped sideways off the valve stem, and started opening the valve on against the spring retainer instead. This has allowed the spring retainer to shift on the collets allowing them to displace, resulting in the valve dropping into the combustion chamber.

Click to expand...

Interesting, so the rocker pushes down on the retainer, the valve doesn't travel downwards but the retainer does and the collets go loose and fall off leaving the valve unsupported. Makes sense. I still haven't found the collets, heaven knows where they went!

I imagine it's much easier replacing the timing belt on an engine that's not in the engine bay so unless I get an engine with a verified replacement it makes sense to do it before installing.

I was out of my comfort zone a long time ago so the idea of swapping out the whole engine has me slightly unnerved. Obviously I'll need a hoist or crane but is there any other kit that you'd recommend I get before starting?

CaptainB said:

I feared it might come to this.


I'll start scouting around for a decent engine. Do you know if it's true that you need to get the ECU programmed when you install a replacement engine?


Interesting, so the rocker pushes down on the retainer, the valve doesn't travel downwards but the retainer does and the collets go loose and fall off leaving the valve unsupported. Makes sense. I still haven't found the collets, heaven knows where they went!

I imagine it's much easier replacing the timing belt on an engine that's not in the engine bay so unless I get an engine with a verified replacement it makes sense to do it before installing.

I was out of my comfort zone a long time ago so the idea of swapping out the whole engine has me slightly unnerved. Obviously I'll need a hoist or crane but is there any other kit that you'd recommend I get before starting?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately you're not going to be able to a lot with the damaged engine, so replacing it is the only sensible option.

The ECM doesn't need to programming to the engine, however it does need a few calibrations, and the injector codes need to be entered, or it won't deliver fuel optimally. If you use your original injectors in the same locations, then the injector codes won't need doing. The only other thing that needs to be done is an air path calibration, which optimises the induction system. Doing this on an engine that has done a fair few miles makes a noticeable difference, so it's definitely worthwhile on a different engine.
There are several bits of home diagnostic kit that can do both injectors and the air path calibration.

Yes basically the rocker can slip sideways and press on the spring retainer, causing it top drop down the valve displacing the collets. One of mine was doing the same thing, but luckily it hadn't caused the collets to displace. It's important to make sure the spring retainer for the rockers are holding them tight, so they don't flop about in use.

There's no special tools needed to remove the engine, it's just heavy so a hoist is a must. It normally comes out the bottom with the gearbox and subframe, but it is possible to take it out the top without the gearbox attached as there's enough room.

Quick question; Given that I have the head and all the ancillaries off already, how much more work would it be to replace the block rather than replace the entire engine?

Obviously a block will be cheaper but as I don't have a crane or hoist I'm thinking that dropping the sump, crank and pistons out may make the block a manageable lift. It doesn't particularly matter how long the job takes but it's not something I'd take on if it's a huge headache of a job and substantially more difficult than a full engine swap.

I am looking at this engine:


and the seller has confirmed that it "should" fit my car. Is there a way to tell for sure? Apart from the fact that it's from an 84k miles car and is in good condition there's not much to go on but does this look like a decent replacement engine? Is there anything to watch out for with mine being an auto?

CaptainB said:

I am looking at this engine:

LAND ROVER FREELANDER 2 2.2 DIESEL COMPLETE ENGINE | eBay

Removed from a 2010 Land Rover Freelander 2 2.2 Diesel. Vehicle/Model: LAND ROVER Freelander Gs Td4 E. We export parts daily and can handle all aspects of freight. Bodywork Colour: BLACK. Interior Trim Colour: Not Available.

www.ebay.co.uk

and the seller has confirmed that it "should" fit my car. Is there a way to tell for sure? Apart from the fact that it's from an 84k miles car and is in good condition there's not much to go on but does this look like a decent replacement engine? Is there anything to watch out for with mine being an auto?

Click to expand...

It'll fit no problem. There is no difference between the auto or manual, unless yours is an SD4, which uses a different turbo.
You'll need the bolts for the flex plate to crank, as they are throw away items. You might as well replace the crank seals (front and back) while the engine is out, as they are known to fail.
Obviously change the oil filter while it's easy to get too, and replace the timing belt.

Nodge68 said:

It'll fit no problem. There is no difference between the auto or manual, unless yours is an SD4, which uses a different turbo.
You'll need the bolts for the flex plate to crank, as they are throw away items. You might as well replace the crank seals (front and back) while the engine is out, as they are known to fail.
Obviously change the oil filter while it's easy to get too, and replace the timing belt.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that, mine's a TD4 so should be ok. I'll probably take the plunge on that engine. It seems like a reasonable-ish price for a relatively low miles engine with all the ancillary parts still attached. I guess I'm going to have spare parts aplenty. I've seen 125k engines priced much higher.

I've been looking into diagnostic tools too. The iCarSoft LR v2 and v3 seem to have the budget end of the market covered and they offer the injector coding functionality. Are there any others in this price range that I ought to consider?

Anyone know how many bolts connect the engine block to the auto box? I’ve got 7 out so far but they still seem pretty well mated.

I’ve just realised that I haven’t undone the flex plate bolts! I’m guessing it will be easier with them out .

CaptainB said:

Anyone know how many bolts connect the engine block to the auto box? I’ve got 7 out so far but they still seem pretty well mated.

Click to expand...

Not many more than that. Don't forget the PTU needs to be removed, so both drive shafts need to come out.

CaptainB said:

I’ve just realised that I haven’t undone the flex plate bolts! I’m guessing it will be easier with them out .

Click to expand...

Yes you want to remove that, and the gobble a way to keep the torque converter tightly held in the bell housing, as you don't want it falling out accidentally.

Nodge68 said:

Not many more than that. Don't forget the PTU needs to be removed, so both drive shafts need to come out.

Click to expand...

Yikes! With the PTU out is it any easier if I take the engine and gearbox out as one or is it still better to leave the gearbox in situ?

Nodge68 said:

Yes you want to remove that, and the gobble a way to keep the torque converter tightly held in the bell housing, as you don't want it falling out accidentally.

Click to expand...

I found one more pesky bolt hiding right at the back corner near the sump but it still feels like there’s something holding the two units together. I’ll have a better look tomorrow, the light was fading fast so it was easy to miss something.

I managed to get the crankshaft bolt out (just remove the timing belt and cover etc to give as much room around the block as possible) using a 2’ breaker bar with a 7’ scaffold pole!

Hopefully tomorrow I can either lift out or drop the block ready for the new engine arriving next week.

CaptainB said:

Yikes! With the PTU out is it any easier if I take the engine and gearbox out as one or is it still better to leave the gearbox in situ?



I found one more pesky bolt hiding right at the back corner near the sump but it still feels like there’s something holding the two units together. I’ll have a better look tomorrow, the light was fading fast so it was easy to miss something.

I managed to get the crankshaft bolt out (just remove the timing belt and cover etc to give as much room around the block as possible) using a 2’ breaker bar with a 7’ scaffold pole!

Hopefully tomorrow I can either lift out or drop the block ready for the new engine arriving next week.

Click to expand...

The whole assembly can only go down, which means lifting the vehicle high enough to get the engine out from below, which without a lift isn't easy.
The PTU needs removing anyway, as it's bolted to the block, as is the RH driveshaft support bearing. The gearbox can be supported from below at roughly it's normal height, so in theory the LH driveshaft can remain in place, although I'd removed it anyway to avoid possible damage should the gearbox shift.

Once the gearbox is free from the engine, the engine can be supported so the lower support bush can be unbolted, and all hoses, and harness connections can be removed.