discomania
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no underware - a steering guard!
Engine oil additives
- Thread starter Patman1200
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slob
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fook orf spamming ****
If you use these additives in with poor quality oil then it will have an improvement mainly because the cheap oil has no added "slippery agents" in there, i've tried Slick 50 in a couple of engines and have found no improvement but maybe this is because it was going into fully synthetic oil. A lot of good oil companies are now using things like molybdenum di sulphide in there lubricants to improve the anti wear properties and fuel efficiency, they spend years refining and balancing the chemicals in their lubricant to meet various manufacturers specifications and we upset this balance by adding things like Slick 50. If you avoid wide throttle openings when the engine is cold and use really good oil you will save your engine far more than any additive can.
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dun deal - wot have I got to loose?
slob
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look! anyone with half a brain can do a internet search and see what **** you lot come up with...
race proven by porsche at le mans.. for one.
do you seriously think we believe that porsche use old knackered engines for one of the worlds formost races. and an endurance race at that.. then to top it you expect us to believe they put yer snake oil in to help combat the wear?
on top of which there is a forum where someone contacted porsche and asked if they used or endorsed yer stuff . the reply was no, we would never use let alone endorse stuff like that.
another case points to filters getting cogged with bits after putting yer snake oil in causing unfiltered oil to be circulated.
the list goes on and on.. one bit of good news i read about yer stuff was how it improved MPG from 15 all the way up to 16 or 17. now call me a cynical old bastard if you must, but an mpg hike of that magnitude is probably down to where, when, and how the driver drove rather yer stuff doing anything.
and when are you gonna answer my question about where you get cam lobe shims for a series landrover and where do you put them.
daft, if the reports about glogging oil filters is true you might have a lot to lose! unless the engine you put it in is already fooked
race proven by porsche at le mans.. for one.
do you seriously think we believe that porsche use old knackered engines for one of the worlds formost races. and an endurance race at that.. then to top it you expect us to believe they put yer snake oil in to help combat the wear?
on top of which there is a forum where someone contacted porsche and asked if they used or endorsed yer stuff . the reply was no, we would never use let alone endorse stuff like that.
another case points to filters getting cogged with bits after putting yer snake oil in causing unfiltered oil to be circulated.
the list goes on and on.. one bit of good news i read about yer stuff was how it improved MPG from 15 all the way up to 16 or 17. now call me a cynical old bastard if you must, but an mpg hike of that magnitude is probably down to where, when, and how the driver drove rather yer stuff doing anything.
and when are you gonna answer my question about where you get cam lobe shims for a series landrover and where do you put them.
daft, if the reports about glogging oil filters is true you might have a lot to lose! unless the engine you put it in is already fooked
Adz
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Read this:
Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible
Then have a read of this:
Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible
Then take the advice to heart and don't stick anything other than oil, fuel and air, making sure each of them is filtered with a clean filter, into your engine!
Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible
Then have a read of this:
Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible
Then take the advice to heart and don't stick anything other than oil, fuel and air, making sure each of them is filtered with a clean filter, into your engine!
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Aw Adz - the nice man is sending me can to make the Dibnah new agin
.
.slob
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slob
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oh yes here it is....
Engines pump about 10,000 litres of air for every litre of fuel consumed, and along with all that air, they suck in plenty of dirt and grit. A good air filter will stop everything bigger than a micron in diameter - everything smaller mostly just floats around harmlessly in the 0.001inch minimum thickness oil films that separate all the moving parts. Despite all of this, there will always be submicron particles that get in and there will be places in the engines oilways where they will gather. Every time you empty the oil from your sump, you're also draining this fine grit with it.
Engines pump about 10,000 litres of air for every litre of fuel consumed, and along with all that air, they suck in plenty of dirt and grit. A good air filter will stop everything bigger than a micron in diameter - everything smaller mostly just floats around harmlessly in the 0.001inch minimum thickness oil films that separate all the moving parts. Despite all of this, there will always be submicron particles that get in and there will be places in the engines oilways where they will gather. Every time you empty the oil from your sump, you're also draining this fine grit with it.
No thanks chap, high quality oil is the only thing i want in my engine. No manufacturer recommends oil additives, they only recommend good oil, good engine flushes and good fuel treatments.
Riggaz
It cannot repair cylinder walls bud, some of the reasons you lose compression are bore glazing, bore polishing, sticking rings and obviously major mechanical failure. All that stuff with do is thicken the oil to try and make a better seal between ring and bore however making the oil thicker is not a good idea especially with engines that have hydraulic lifters and vvt. The only product that can de glaze the bores is an advanced engine flush Forte or a specially designed de glazing additive that is added to the fuel, we've done before and after compression tests with Forte flush and it does work but only for problems related to varnish, laquers and deposits that cause the rings to stick, it cannot repair wear, nothing can. If the bore is polished it can only be repaired by re honing. You tend to find if you use flushes with every service you never see bore glazing or polishing problems or ring problems for that matter. We've not had to change rings and/or re hone bores since we started using flushes about 27 years ago. To cut a long story short, when changing the oil, use a top quaity flush then change the oil with some top quality oil and you will extend the life of your engine. Oil has all the additives you'll need already in it.
Riggaz
slob
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so how come i only change me oil every.. oh! bout 2 or 3 years, in which time i've covered possibly 50,000 miles or so. i've never had an engine wear related problem or suffered from low compression due to glazing.
if you haven't had a problem in 27 years don't yer think it might be down to modern oils and engine manufacturing techniques rather than the flushing yer do?
i ran a vauxhall astra fer 5 years and only changed the oil once and the front brake pads about 3 times when i sold it there wint a even a whisp of smoke from it.
As an owner the odds of seeing wear related problems are low due to the amount of cars you are in contact with however we service well over 3500 cars a year so the odds of seeing such problems are much higher for us and it is something we see from new customers with poor service history.
GM were having big problems with bore glazing in their engines due to long drain intervals and now recommend forte flush with every service, also VAG vehicles operating variable servicing suffer from it and can burn up to 1 ltr of oil every 1000 miles if glazing occurs. We deal with many Daihatsu's as well and the smaller petrol engines suffer from sticking piston rings and start pouring out blue smoke however if flush is used you dont get this problem.
These are the most modern engines using the most modern lubricants and they still require flushing. Glazing usually occurs when good oil is used and the engine is never worked ( round town, old people ) so you probably wouldn't have had any experience with it and the vauxhall astra you had was probably the old 8v which are renowned for being strong and reliable but also simple. You would not get away with servicing a modern engine like that as the machining tolerances are much smaller and would upset many valve train components as well as the rings and oil strainers etc.
If only 0.5% of cars suffered from wear related problems then 0.5% x the amount of times you have serviced your cars is quite small whereas 0.5% of 3500 x 27 is quite a few. We haven't seen any.
Riggaz
slob
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1/2 a % ..not much is it, i've ran old cars, new cars, lawn mowers, bikes and never bothered with the recommended service intervals.
you might see more vehicles than me but it still doesn't change the fact that i don't bother with oil changes all that much and don't have problems related to it.
car makers will insist on on all sorts to get more money from punters and so will garages, and like everything else these service interval have a large built-in safety margin, bit like safe working loads for winches and the so on.
one thing a lot of folk do that i don't, is rev the bollocks off a cold engine. you know who you are, yer go out to yer car, get in , start it , then rev it up to about 4000 rpm before the oil has a chance to circulate.
one **** that came around to look at a car i was selling brought his 'mechanic' mate to look over it for him. this was in january, south of england about 8:30am.
his mate walked round it kicked the tyres , so to speak, then got in started it and straight away revved it up to what must have bin about 5 1/2 k.
so am out the window shouting " oi! yer fooking ****! fooking whoa !"
he was so ignorant about what he was doing he accused me of trying to hide something.
you might see more vehicles than me but it still doesn't change the fact that i don't bother with oil changes all that much and don't have problems related to it.
car makers will insist on on all sorts to get more money from punters and so will garages, and like everything else these service interval have a large built-in safety margin, bit like safe working loads for winches and the so on.
one thing a lot of folk do that i don't, is rev the bollocks off a cold engine. you know who you are, yer go out to yer car, get in , start it , then rev it up to about 4000 rpm before the oil has a chance to circulate.
one **** that came around to look at a car i was selling brought his 'mechanic' mate to look over it for him. this was in january, south of england about 8:30am.
his mate walked round it kicked the tyres , so to speak, then got in started it and straight away revved it up to what must have bin about 5 1/2 k.
so am out the window shouting " oi! yer fooking ****! fooking whoa !"
he was so ignorant about what he was doing he accused me of trying to hide something.
I said "if only", meaning the real figure is far higher pal. We get the same kind of dickheads " checking over" our used sales cars as well, the trouble is people who have no idea about cars ( which is nothing to be ashamed of) take with them some monkey from a back street garage who has no idea and no attension to detail ( checking service history etc) to give it the all clear. There is a safety margin but it is not twice the recommended interval, it is not even large, it is more like a couple of thousand miles. If you were to listen to your engine next to a new engine then you would realise just how much your engine has worn, whereas some of the high mileage taxi's we have coming into our workshop still sound the same as a new one. You could take your view that manufacturers want more money so have you in for servicing more than necessary or you could say that they want your car to wear out so they can sell you a new one. The fact of the matter is that regardless of the manufacturers or garages intensions the oil that you are using has not been designed to withstand twice the recommended drain interval, there is too much contamination, both soot and acid and the additive package in the oil will not cope with it. Get some litmus paper and test the ph of the oil both at the recommended drain interval and then when you change the oil. The acids produced as a by product of combustion are not engine friendly, your oil has acidity regulators in it but they only work for so long, might be worth a check.
Riggaz
slob
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ave heard all that stuff about acids and the rest but the fact remains, i rarely change me oil and me engines last with no sign, visual or acoostickly, of anything untoward. you'd think that if your oil was gonna turn nasty towards yer injun i'd have seen or heard some sign by now.
as for puuting an old engine next to a new engine it wouldn't matter if the oldun was service everyday it would still sound different than a brand new one. if it didn't i'd be thinking there was something wrong with the noo un.
as for puuting an old engine next to a new engine it wouldn't matter if the oldun was service everyday it would still sound different than a brand new one. if it didn't i'd be thinking there was something wrong with the noo un.
My SAAB 900 Turbo, 160,000 miles, last 120,000 using Ovoline tractor universal engine oil changed "about" every 10,000 if I could be bothered ... still runs like new, and NO smoke ever, and NO failed parts, and so WHY pay money to get some remedially stupid drug-crazed oaf to "service" it?
Better by far NOT to "service" cars on a schedule, but instead to keep a careful watch on all the bits that matter and "service" them immediately they need it.
All that drivel about stuff in the oil !!! Don't start me going!
If you do, Slob will publish some PMs .....
Charles.
PS - unlike SOME people, I do not make my living by taking money from other people on the pretext of servicing cars. SERVICING !!! Usually amounts to messing about with something that is going just fine.
Better by far NOT to "service" cars on a schedule, but instead to keep a careful watch on all the bits that matter and "service" them immediately they need it.
All that drivel about stuff in the oil !!! Don't start me going!
If you do, Slob will publish some PMs .....
Charles.
PS - unlike SOME people, I do not make my living by taking money from other people on the pretext of servicing cars. SERVICING !!! Usually amounts to messing about with something that is going just fine.
Some info on oil for you
Frequently Asked Engine Oil Questions1. Can I top up mineral oils with synthetic oils and vice versa? Yes. The synthetic fluids (polyalphaolefins) used in engine oils are man made versions of mineral oil and are therefore compatible with mineral oils. In semi-synthetic formulations, mineral oils and synthetic oils are part of the same formulation. The only downside here is if you top up expensive synthetic oil with mineral oil you will be effectively diluting the advantages that such an oil will provide (good cold start, good high temperature performance and longevity).
2. What is bore glazing? Bore glazing is a condition that usually occurs during the first critical hours/miles of an engine's life. If an oil of too higher quality is used and the engine is not subjected to the correct loading (light loading is particularly bad), the honing marks become filled, making the bores smooth. With nothing to retain the oil in the bore, it will begin to disappear down the exhaust pipe. Symptoms tend to be high oil consumption, smoking and poor compression. It is possible to cure by adding a glaze-busting additive to the fuel. If this fails, re-honing may be required. (See also the bulletin on Running In New or Re-built Engines)
3. What is bore polishing? When oil burns in the combustion chamber, it creates ash that is very abrasive. This can be particularly bad where high ash products are used in engines used in high temperature, stressed conditions. The ash effectively polishes away the honing marks and leaves nothing to retain the oil in the bore. Once again, as with bore glazing, the symptoms are high oil consumption, smoke and reduced compression.
4. What is detergency and dispersancy? Detergency refers to the oils ability to keep engine components clean, particularly those in the hotter parts of the engine (pistons, rings, valves, etc.). The additive is referred to as a detergent. Dispersancy refers to the oils ability to keep solid contaminants (i.e. soot, combustion debris, etc.) in suspension. This is necessary for two main reasons: firstly, it delivers the contaminants to the filter where the bigger particles are removed and secondly, it ensures that all the smaller particles flow out when the oil is drained, leaving the engine clean.
5. Why can't I use high detergent/dispersant oils in my classic car? Usually this will depend upon the type of filtration used. If a simple mesh strainer is used on the pump inlet, low detergency/dispersancy oils are a must. As previously described, dispersants keep all the 'rubbish' in suspension and allow it to circulate. Simple mesh strainers aren't efficient enough to remove it and so it continues to circulate causing damage.
6. What's the difference between a multigrade and a monograde? The main difference between these two types of engine oil is their fluidity at cold start. Multigrades, such as 10W/40, 15W/40, 5W/30, etc., flow more easily and are therefore pumped round to the critical components much more quickly. Historically, the 'W' stands for winter. As well as this important feature, multigrades also have to provide a protective oil film at higher temperatures when the engine has warmed up. Monogrades on the other hand provide a very good oil film at working temperatures, but their cold start properties are poor. To overcome this it used to be the practice to put a thin monograde, such as a SAE 30, in the engine during the winter and a heavier monograde, such as a SAE 50.
7. What are API and ACEA specifications? API (American Petroleum Institute) and ACEA (Association of European Automotive Manufacturers). These are North American and European specifications respectively. They are compiled by the Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) and are recommended by them in handbooks to ensure the correct quality of oil is used to protect their own particular engine designs.
8. What do the SAE Classifications mean? SAE stands for the Society of Automotive Engineers. This is a classification system used to categorise how thick or thin an oil is. The classifications are listed here in order of increasing thickness: SAE 10W, 20W, 30, 40, 50.
9. Is there a special oil for turbochargers? These days it is more appropriate to ask,"... are there oils available that are not suitable for turbochargers?", as nearly all modern lubricants will protect turbos in petrol and diesel engines.
10. In my car, if I use a synthetic product, can I leave it in the engine longer? No. Always refer to the vehicles handbook or seek technical advice as far as oil drain intervals are concerned. The oil drain interval will be assigned by the vehicle manufacturer and will take into account filtration, fuel type, power output, etc. If the oil is mineral based or synthetic it should still meet the manufacturer's requirements and as such cannot be used past the recommended oil drain interval.
Frequently Asked Engine Oil Questions1. Can I top up mineral oils with synthetic oils and vice versa? Yes. The synthetic fluids (polyalphaolefins) used in engine oils are man made versions of mineral oil and are therefore compatible with mineral oils. In semi-synthetic formulations, mineral oils and synthetic oils are part of the same formulation. The only downside here is if you top up expensive synthetic oil with mineral oil you will be effectively diluting the advantages that such an oil will provide (good cold start, good high temperature performance and longevity).
2. What is bore glazing? Bore glazing is a condition that usually occurs during the first critical hours/miles of an engine's life. If an oil of too higher quality is used and the engine is not subjected to the correct loading (light loading is particularly bad), the honing marks become filled, making the bores smooth. With nothing to retain the oil in the bore, it will begin to disappear down the exhaust pipe. Symptoms tend to be high oil consumption, smoking and poor compression. It is possible to cure by adding a glaze-busting additive to the fuel. If this fails, re-honing may be required. (See also the bulletin on Running In New or Re-built Engines)
3. What is bore polishing? When oil burns in the combustion chamber, it creates ash that is very abrasive. This can be particularly bad where high ash products are used in engines used in high temperature, stressed conditions. The ash effectively polishes away the honing marks and leaves nothing to retain the oil in the bore. Once again, as with bore glazing, the symptoms are high oil consumption, smoke and reduced compression.
4. What is detergency and dispersancy? Detergency refers to the oils ability to keep engine components clean, particularly those in the hotter parts of the engine (pistons, rings, valves, etc.). The additive is referred to as a detergent. Dispersancy refers to the oils ability to keep solid contaminants (i.e. soot, combustion debris, etc.) in suspension. This is necessary for two main reasons: firstly, it delivers the contaminants to the filter where the bigger particles are removed and secondly, it ensures that all the smaller particles flow out when the oil is drained, leaving the engine clean.
5. Why can't I use high detergent/dispersant oils in my classic car? Usually this will depend upon the type of filtration used. If a simple mesh strainer is used on the pump inlet, low detergency/dispersancy oils are a must. As previously described, dispersants keep all the 'rubbish' in suspension and allow it to circulate. Simple mesh strainers aren't efficient enough to remove it and so it continues to circulate causing damage.
6. What's the difference between a multigrade and a monograde? The main difference between these two types of engine oil is their fluidity at cold start. Multigrades, such as 10W/40, 15W/40, 5W/30, etc., flow more easily and are therefore pumped round to the critical components much more quickly. Historically, the 'W' stands for winter. As well as this important feature, multigrades also have to provide a protective oil film at higher temperatures when the engine has warmed up. Monogrades on the other hand provide a very good oil film at working temperatures, but their cold start properties are poor. To overcome this it used to be the practice to put a thin monograde, such as a SAE 30, in the engine during the winter and a heavier monograde, such as a SAE 50.
7. What are API and ACEA specifications? API (American Petroleum Institute) and ACEA (Association of European Automotive Manufacturers). These are North American and European specifications respectively. They are compiled by the Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) and are recommended by them in handbooks to ensure the correct quality of oil is used to protect their own particular engine designs.
8. What do the SAE Classifications mean? SAE stands for the Society of Automotive Engineers. This is a classification system used to categorise how thick or thin an oil is. The classifications are listed here in order of increasing thickness: SAE 10W, 20W, 30, 40, 50.
9. Is there a special oil for turbochargers? These days it is more appropriate to ask,"... are there oils available that are not suitable for turbochargers?", as nearly all modern lubricants will protect turbos in petrol and diesel engines.
10. In my car, if I use a synthetic product, can I leave it in the engine longer? No. Always refer to the vehicles handbook or seek technical advice as far as oil drain intervals are concerned. The oil drain interval will be assigned by the vehicle manufacturer and will take into account filtration, fuel type, power output, etc. If the oil is mineral based or synthetic it should still meet the manufacturer's requirements and as such cannot be used past the recommended oil drain interval.
He had to cut and paste all that theoretical crap.
Don't be impressed, boys.
"
Use any decent mineral oil, change it once in a while, and the filter, and all will be well.
Never buy expensive synthetic oils - the only good they do is to fill up the pockets of the people who sell the stuff.
I mean, read this bit of drivel ....
"If the oil is mineral based or synthetic it should still meet the manufacturer's requirements and as such cannot be used past the recommended oil drain interval."
"CANNOT BE USED PAST THE RECOMMENDED OIL DRAIN INTERVAL"
Really? Who says? If I want to run it ten times longer I will do just that, so don't let any smart arse snake oil vendor say I CANNOT do that.
That whole cut'npaste was Crapola from start to finish, but maybe the guy who did it is from Seneca Valley and sells snake oil himself for a living?
CharlesY
Don't be impressed, boys.
"
Use any decent mineral oil, change it once in a while, and the filter, and all will be well.
Never buy expensive synthetic oils - the only good they do is to fill up the pockets of the people who sell the stuff.
I mean, read this bit of drivel ....
"If the oil is mineral based or synthetic it should still meet the manufacturer's requirements and as such cannot be used past the recommended oil drain interval."
"CANNOT BE USED PAST THE RECOMMENDED OIL DRAIN INTERVAL"
Really? Who says? If I want to run it ten times longer I will do just that, so don't let any smart arse snake oil vendor say I CANNOT do that.
That whole cut'npaste was Crapola from start to finish, but maybe the guy who did it is from Seneca Valley and sells snake oil himself for a living?
CharlesY
