Engine Capacity

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Old Yellow

New Member
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6
Location
Bledlow, Buckinghamshire
Not being that mechanically minded, I wondered if anyone could answer the following? I am currently having a 2.5td engine fitted in my Series 2a. The engine has been rebored to plus 40 and I have been told this will give me some extra cc's. Does anyone have any idea how many?:5biamwithstupid:
 
oh, that's probably one of the worst LR engines - and certainly not the right engine to be boreing out - dare i ask how much it's costing to have that work done ?

sorry to be a gloom and doom merchant
 
Thanks for that! Whole engine replacement being done by a local LR guru - has looked after LR's for a number of my friends (all pre tax) and is seen as somewhat of a miracle worker. Total cost circa £1300.
 
Thanks for that! Whole engine replacement being done by a local LR guru - has looked after LR's for a number of my friends (all pre tax) and is seen as somewhat of a miracle worker. Total cost circa £1300.

ouch, save your money and get a 200tdi conversion done for that. that includes buying the doner discovery
 
Strangely advice from 3 or 4 local land rover nuts! I only do about 2000 miles a year in it (if that) and this was suggested as a good replacement (once reconditioned). Oh well too late to change now as work has started. Hopefully this will be the exception to prove you wrong!

Anyway, any thoughts on the original question
 
if your only going to be doing that mileage it's going to take you a few years just to get the thing run in ! - however TDs are strong engines if they are looked after - you might want to think about taking the turbo off

do you know the stroke and orginal bore size of the engine ? - where's me calculator ?

there's probably a bore size/stroke online calculator out there somewhere
 
Sorry, I assumed standard sizes. To be fair though had I known that sort of info, would have probably known not to go down this route!!!
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing....it's not as dangerous as absolutely no knowledge!
 
Bit of re-assurance for you; 19J engine isn't all THAT bad, just unloved, and to my mind, I'm afraid to say its still a FAR better choice of mill for a Series than a TDi.
It's reputation for being weak isn't entirely 'unfounded', they had a tendancy to crack pistons and heads, but the problems weren's entirely due to design, the biggest problem was the era in which they were made, and the abysmal quality control applied by the factory at the time; then exascerbated by poor servicing, hard use and old age.
A reconditioned 19J, put together with the attension to detail not paid at the factory, SHOULDN'T suffer the build quality problems; and with new rings, bearings, gaskets etc etc, the thing should have more life in it, and better reliability than it did when new, and I would stretch my kneck out to go as far as to say, a DAMN site more life and reliability than a tired old Disco TDi 'take-out'...... OK, so its a couple of hundred quid, rather than a grand or more, but your getting an engine with a full life expectancy in it for your money. So to my mind, expensive, yes, but not bad value for money in the greater scheme of things.
As for suitability; the TDi engines are highly over rated; they do not have the 'imense' amount of low down torque pundits claim, nor do they have a huge amount of power; as diesels go they aren't bad..... but then they aren't a revalation either.
And in a Series, despite not having the 'numbers' of engines that are known to kill series transmissions, they have a reputation of eating them just as badly, a phenomina which would seem to be down to the way that the TDi engine 'ramps' its power onto the shafts; and if you look at the TDi power curve, it has bog all torque or power at tickover, which ramps up HUGELY over a very short part of the initial rev range, then drops off like a stone..... consequently the 'thinking' is that its the rate of change of force that that particular power curve gives that puts a sledge hammer loading on the Series reletively 'fragile' drive line whenever load or acceleration is asked for; but when speed is wanted, the things have to rev thier nuts off to offer any motive force with it.
19J motor, isn't VERY much better to be honest, that high initial ramp, and rapid tail off of torque is a natural diesel trait, inherited from the old 2.25Na motor, but on that engine, the power it had was so pathetic it couldn't cause much harm, and to some degree the low rent development of the old 2.25 into the 2.5NAD and then the 2.5TD 19J motor meant that to save cost of re-engineering the motor they simply were inordinately concervative in 'tuning' it, which consequently gave it a LOT softer power delivery, along with lower numbers than could have been achieved (19J with bigger intercooler, and tweeked timing pump can make as much power as a TDi).... which means that its a LOT easier on series transmissions, and therfore a lot better suited (to my mind).
So there's some comfort in there for you, and solace that your 'gurus' aren't completely stringing you along or sellng you a 'pup'. They have just managed to avoid the fanatasim of cheap dead disco engines!
As for added capacity; works like this. 'Swept Volume' or 'Engine Displacement' is the volume of fluid displaced by the engine in one revolution, and basically the volume of one cylinder, multiplied by the number of cylinders.
Swept volume of a single cylinder is the cross sectional area of the 'bore' times the distance the piston moves, or the 'stroke' of the crank; so you get something that looks like this:
3.142 x Bore, all squared , divided by 4, times the stroke equals Cyl Capacity times number of cylinders, equals engine capacity.
Land Rover 2.5 four pot, has four 600+cc ish cylinders, with a bore dimension something around 3" or 75mm or so. 40 tho is about 1mm, which on a 75mm bore is barely 1.5% so on an engine of 2.5l is going to give you probably less than an extra 5cc of displaced capacity......
Its a second 'over-bore' size within standard service limits, not a performance 'over-bore'.... dont expect great shakes from it!
But, I would say, if you've had to over bore two sizes, its probably worth going for over sized pistons to take up that added clerance, rather than over sized piston rings on stock sized slugs, so that the rings dont see so much load; and given the question mark over original pistons to begin with, probably more worth the doing..... but I'll leave you to discuss that with whoever is building your engine.
 
Hi,

My 200TDi Disco does not need its nuts revved off to move away from stationary. I can just lift the clutch with no increase in revs, and away she goes. Furthermore, once it is moving, with no throttle, I can point it at a humpback brige that crosses my local canal and over she goes. I would guess at about 1:5 gradient.

602
 
My 200TDi Disco does not need its nuts revved off to move away from stationary. I can just lift the clutch with no increase in revs, and away she goes. Furthermore, once it is moving, with no throttle, I can point it at a humpback brige that crosses my local canal and over she goes. I would guess at about 1:5 gradient.

:confused: not sure what relevence that has to anything......

But if its a 'rebuke; of my description of TDi power delivery, read it again.... becouse what you have just described is entirely in keeping with the TDi power & power delivery and does nothing to contradict what I've said about it......

which may have been a tad terse, but it wasn't all that relevent to the thread, as I was simply pointing out to the chap, that despite so many people suggesting that dead disco motors are the panacea to all series ills, the engine he's got isn't such a bad choice, & prepped the way suggested, pottentially a more reliable one as well, despite the 'reputation' it has.

TDi has around 40Nm torque at tick-over; enough to get a Disco off the line without revving; but hardly shed loads of the stuff; try dragging a stuck Rangie out of a mud-pit with one in low box, THEN you'll realise how little 'low down' torque they have!
 
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:confused: not sure what relevence that has to anything......
But if its a 'rebuke; of my description of TDi power delivery, read it again.... becouse what you have just described is entirely in keeping with the TDi power & power delivery and does nothing to contradict what I've said about it......

chill out he's just telling us (in his own simple way) that the 200 has got some grunt
 
Hi,

What I was saying was that a 200TDi has ENOUGH grunt for most people.

On the other hand, my 1960 Series Two fitted with a 200TD leaves something to be desired. On the other hand, it does have a 3.5 diff in rear axle and 245 x ?? knobly tyres. As I haven't yet got round to fitting a 3.5 diff in the front axle, I have removed the front propshaft. Approaching traffic lights on a hill, while pulling 1000kg of caravan, makes me nervous.

602
 
my 1960 Series Two fitted with a 200TD
200TD? - Do you mean, 2.5TD or 200TDi, or 200Di; is it a dihatsu or other makers label, a hybrid of a 200TDi and 2.5TD... or just a typo.....
Approaching traffic lights on a hill, while pulling 1000kg of caravan, makes me nervous.
I used to haul the 1.5 ton Caravan with my 109, loaded with six kids and bikes and stuff...... that had an athmatic 2.25 Diesel in it......
Traffic lights and stuff didn't bother me too much.... it had low range (and was USED on the road, with a load!).... what made my sphincter twitch were the Artics on the m-way & by-passes....... They dont like having to slow down when they are running at a hill, and if one of them is in the outside lane! :eek:
 
200TD? - Do you mean, 2.5TD or 200TDi, or 200Di; is it a dihatsu or other makers label, a hybrid of a 200TDi and 2.5TD... or just a typo.....

I used to haul the 1.5 ton Caravan with my 109, loaded with six kids and bikes and stuff...... that had an athmatic 2.25 Diesel in it......
Traffic lights and stuff didn't bother me too much.... it had low range (and was USED on the road, with a load!).... what made my sphincter twitch were the Artics on the m-way & by-passes....... They dont like having to slow down when they are running at a hill, and if one of them is in the outside lane! :eek:

I never QUITE had to use the low box on my 110 TD but it came damn close at times!!
 
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