Electrical connection - WTF??

Landlover99 · Apr 21, 2016

Hi all,

I finally got around to trying to find out why my Defender's wipers have packed up. On removing the top panel, I was able to spot a problem immediately, although I'm not sure if this is definitely the cause, it's certainly highly likely. At the point where the wiring from the wiper relay enters the wiper motor, there's a plug/socket affair. Two wires appear to have been neatly snipped, although this is impossible! The failure happened when I was driving along one day and no one else has access to the vehicle anyway. I'm posting 3 photos so you can see how clean the cuts are. No one could have done this, so... how the hell did it happen? And equally importantly, what's the best way to fix this? The biggest problem is the 'snips' have occurred so close to the plug that I can't pare back any insulation to make repair connections to the affected wires. Any suggestions?
BWT, the two cut

wires are (in case you can't see from the pix) white&green and brown&green.

zeaphod · Apr 22, 2016

That is very odd - it really does look like a clean cut. I guess it's possible that those wires were under tension and the natural vibration caused them to fail. Of course, if you're not the first owner, a PO could have been in there, almost cut them through, then changed their mind. You should be able to sort it by removing the metal inserts for these wires, then crimping new ones onto the remaining wire. They are held in by little metal tags, which you should be able to bend back with a fine screwdriver. Alternatively, you could replace the wiper loom.

mojo247 · Apr 22, 2016

Dippypud may be able to help?

Landlover99 · Apr 22, 2016

zeaphod said:
That is very odd - it really does look like a clean cut. I guess it's possible that those wires were under tension and the natural vibration caused them to fail. Of course, if you're not the first owner, a PO could have been in there, almost cut them through, then changed their mind. You should be able to sort it by removing the metal inserts for these wires, then crimping new ones onto the remaining wire. They are held in by little metal tags, which you should be able to bend back with a fine screwdriver. Alternatively, you could replace the wiper loom.

Thanks for that! Well, I made good again with the plug but the damn wiper motor still won't work. There's power to it now from the relay but it still seems as dead as a dodo. I wonder what the typical failure mode of one of these motors is - and whether the wiper motor from the rear door is identical? That might be a useful temp. fix!

mojo247 · Apr 22, 2016

No, the wiper motors are different. I think the rear one is a lot smaller; less to do!

Have you checked the park switch on the motor or if the earth is working?

If it is then it does sound like the motor!

Landlover99 · Apr 22, 2016

mojo247 said:
No, the wiper motors are different. I think the rear one is a lot smaller; less to do!

Have you checked the park switch on the motor or if the earth is working?

If it is then it does sound like the motor!

Not quite sure what you mean by that. The motor casing is not grounded to the vehicle. There is 80 ohms between the motor case and the battery neg terminal (and the rest of the chassis of course). The motor has it's own ground feed which comes in via the plug in the picture (the black wire) so why would it need for the casing to be earthed to the vehicle body as well?

zeaphod · Apr 25, 2016

This doesn't sound right to me. I'd earth the body and see if it runs.

Landlover99 said:
Not quite sure what you mean by that. The motor casing is not grounded to the vehicle. There is 80 ohms between the motor case and the battery neg terminal (and the rest of the chassis of course). The motor has it's own ground feed which comes in via the plug in the picture (the black wire) so why would it need for the casing to be earthed to the vehicle body as well?

jamesmartin · Apr 25, 2016

Landlover99 said:
Hi all,

I finally got around to trying to find out why my Defender's wipers have packed up. On removing the top panel, I was able to spot a problem immediately, although I'm not sure if this is definitely the cause, it's certainly highly likely. At the point where the wiring from the wiper relay enters the wiper motor, there's a plug/socket affair. Two wires appear to have been neatly snipped, although this is impossible! The failure happened when I was driving along one day and no one else has access to the vehicle anyway. I'm posting 3 photos so you can see how clean the cuts are. No one could have done this, so... how the hell did it happen? And equally importantly, what's the best way to fix this? The biggest problem is the 'snips' have occurred so close to the plug that I can't pare back any insulation to make repair connections to the affected wires. Any suggestions?
BWT, the two cut View attachment 99686 View attachment 99687 View attachment 99688 wires are (in case you can't see from the pix) white&green and brown&green.

they have been cut and i shouldnt think are the reason your wipers dont work might be why they dont with the washers,do the r/g and b/g wires have a live

Landlover99 · Apr 25, 2016

zeaphod said:
This doesn't sound right to me. I'd earth the body and see if it runs.

Does seem a bit odd on reflection. Getting a bit late here now so I'll try it tomorrow...

Landlover99 · Apr 25, 2016

jamesmartin said:
they have been cut and i shouldnt think are the reason your wipers dont work might be why they dont with the washers,do the r/g and b/g wires have a live

If I understand your question correctly, yes, there is power present at those wires with the wiper stalk in the correct position (enough to blow a 15A fuse when deliberately shorted to ground - just to be totally sure!).

jamesmartin · Apr 25, 2016

it would seem either park switch or motors poor ,do wipers move by hand

Landlover99 · Apr 25, 2016

jamesmartin said:
it would seem either park switch or motors poor ,do wipers move by hand

The wipers have always been immovable by hand so that doesn't tell us anything. Certainly if I ground the motor casing tomorrow and the thing still won't work, I'll have to remove the main dash and replace the motor (and solenoid just to be on the safe side).

jamesmartin · Apr 25, 2016

Landlover99 said:
The wipers have always been immovable by hand so that doesn't tell us anything. Certainly if I ground the motor casing tomorrow and the thing still won't work, I'll have to remove the main dash and replace the motor (and solenoid just to be on the safe side).

it does if motors disconnected from the rack

Landlover99 · Apr 25, 2016

jamesmartin said:
it does if motors disconnected from the rack

No, it's all still connected to its linkages at present. And with that, I'm off to bed! I'll report back tomorrow....

zeaphod · Apr 26, 2016

80ohms between motor casing and earth/neg makes me think there's a short inside the motor. You may see sparks when earthing it - before the fuse blows.

Landlover99 · Apr 26, 2016

zeaphod said:
80ohms between motor casing and earth/neg makes me think there's a short inside the motor. You may see sparks when earthing it - before the fuse blows.

Well there may damage of some sort in the motor, but it's not manifesting during this test. I jumped a thick wire from the motor casing direct to the battery ground terminal and *nothing* happened (this is with the ignition on and the wiper stalk in the normal 'on' position) and the fuse didn't blow. So.... looks like the motor's the problem unless there's anything else I've forgotten.
I'd carry out testing with the motor removed; that would give a better idea, but this model it's a real pain to remove it - but it looks like I shall have to in order to replace it anyway.

lynall · Apr 26, 2016

If they have been cut thats a very interesting cut mark, it doesnt look clean enough to me.

Landlover99 · May 29, 2016

It seems there are only supposed to be 3 wires on this model! Once the motor is removed you can see that though there are 5 contacts to the socket on it, only 3 of them are used. So I'm left guessing this is something that was done at the factory?? Seems **** poor for a factory mod, though; just leaving them snipped off. :/

Electrical connection - WTF??

Landlover99

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