P38A DSE won't idle

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I

Itu Ini

Member
Posts
13
Location
Malaysia
Hi all from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia,
My first post here and hoping someone can help.
P38 DSE engine is difficult to start and when it manage to start, it will run at anything above 1200 RPM. At this point, if I release my foot from the throttle even a bit, it just stalls and died.
History: My DSE overheated 2 yrs ago. It didn't cracked or warped the head, just surface rot (grey rust) to a point the pressure from one of the valves had leaked into the coolant waterways.
Work done: welded and skimmed the head, replaced all pistons rings, replaced in-tank pump, serviced the FIP and the solenoid checked, serviced all injectors (checked Injector #4 for electrical signals w/ multimeter, there is signal but don't know if correct or not), replaced all leak-off pipes.
Autologic (see pic from workshop below): returned this message:
Injection timing deviaton.
This DTC is stored when:
a.) break or short on line, plug connection or needle lift sensor.
b.) engine speed derived from needle lift sensor signal is implausible when compared to ... (illegible) sensor.

Does this means Injector #4 is bad. I hope not as it is almost impossible to find one in Malaysia, I can eBay it of course, but am hoping for the wisdom of the many here to point to a solution before I eBay the costly injector #4, if that's where the fault lies.

I am really frustrated as the car was running fine, which means injector #4 was fine, prior to overheating and having do the head work done.

I thank everyone in advance for all advise.
Best wishes from me.

a8f99d20-320d-425f-ba1e-24d166bb2a68.JPG
 
One more thing: could the idling issue be because the timing was not done correctly when they were working on replacing the piston rings?
 
Hi and welcome, where do we start? The head on the 2.5 should not be skimmed as stated in the manual.the engine should run with a faulty number#4 injector,the fault light on the dash will illuminate.Don't know what diagnostics your using but checking the modulation, which should be around 50% will give you a clue as to whether the timing is correct.You seem to have done the obvious like leak off pipes and FIP the symptoms would point to the fuel quantity solinoid.I take it the vehicle has run correctly since the pump overhaul?
 
Hello and welcome:)
when the pump was done did you make sure the pin on the quantity servo was located in to the collar on the shaft as if thats not correct there will be no fuel adjustment from the electronics.
 
brianp38dse said:
Hello and welcome:)
when the pump was done did you make sure the pin on the quantity servo was located in to the collar on the shaft as if thats not correct there will be no fuel adjustment from the electronics.
Click to expand...
Good point Brian,I was assuming the pump was professionally overhauled, which is why I asked if the engine ran after.
 
tomcat59alan said:
Good point Brian,I was assuming the pump was professionally overhauled, which is why I asked if the engine ran after.
Click to expand...

I was wondering the same, if it was pro job get them to check it, if diy check the collar and possibly the injectors as they are not really a diy job unless you have the pop off test rig
 
tomcat59alan said:
Hi and welcome, where do we start? The head on the 2.5 should not be skimmed as stated in the manual.the engine should run with a faulty number#4 injector,the fault light on the dash will illuminate.Don't know what diagnostics your using but checking the modulation, which should be around 50% will give you a clue as to whether the timing is correct.You seem to have done the obvious like leak off pipes and FIP the symptoms would point to the fuel quantity solinoid.I take it the vehicle has run correctly since the pump overhaul?
Click to expand...

If #4 is duff (and needle lift sounds like it is) then it will be running on defaults and modulation might show 50% anyway?

Sounds like the fuel injection pump static timing needs checking too.
 
tomcat59alan said:
The head on the 2.5 should not be skimmed as stated in the manual.
Click to expand...
Yikes ..... no turning back unless I can source a donor engine.

tomcat59alan said:
the engine should run with a faulty number#4 injector,the fault light on the dash will illuminate.
Click to expand...
that's what the workshop told me, unfortunately the display on the dash is n longer visable.

tomcat59alan said:
Don't know what diagnostics your using but checking the modulation, which should be around 50% will give you a clue as to whether the timing is correct.You seem to have done the obvious like leak off pipes and FIP the symptoms would point to the fuel quantity solinoid.
Click to expand...
the name of the diagnostic 'tablet' is Autologic. Will inform the workshop about the modulation thingy.

tomcat59alan said:
I take it the vehicle has run correctly since the pump overhaul?
Click to expand...
The pump was 'fine' when the engine overheated. 'Fine' is in quote because it was last serviced 3 years prior to this episode. When the engine still wouldn't idle after doing the head, the mechanic thought it was the FIP that was the issue, hence I took the FIP for servicing. It was done by a professional outfit that only works on FIPs and injectors. Nonetheless, I made them recheck after it still fail to idle despite having been serviced. I assume, they did it as it should be.
 
Last edited:
brianp38dse said:
Hello and welcome:)
when the pump was done did you make sure the pin on the quantity servo was located in to the collar on the shaft as if thats not correct there will be no fuel adjustment from the electronics.
Click to expand...
I assume it was done properly as they were professionals doing only FIP and Injectors.
Nonetheless, I will share this with them, just to verify.
 
tomcat59alan said:
We're just guessing until the OP gets back to us, probably asleep in KL.if his "overhaul" was just resealing it you are probably right.
Click to expand...
Pardon me, but what do you mean by 'resealing'? I am not a mechanic, so the vocabulary may not be strong, had to use Google to define some words posted elsewhere in landyzone when researching prior to posting here.:)

The 'overhaul' done was just replacing all the piston rings; the bearings, con-rods, pistons, and combustion chamber were not done, they were just cleaned, not replaced.
 
Grrrrrr said:
Sounds like the fuel injection pump static timing needs checking too.
Click to expand...
I will share this tip with the FIP outfit. Is this the part where you rotate the FIP to adjust between lean and rich? Dunno is this is relevant or not but I saw the workshop doing this, which unfortunately didn't help with the stall issue o_O
 
Last edited:
dubbleRR said:
Does it smoke from the exhaust ,when running o_O...
Click to expand...
here's the pic. The white smoke was coming from the exhaust manifold which they opened up, instead of the actual exhaust at the back. they did this to eliminate any possibilities of the catalytic converter had stuffed up.
[GA
PNG image.png
 
When the injector pipes were put on the pump ,are they in the right order:eek:,white smoke is unburnt diesel in the manifold ,sounds as timing is off a tooth on the chains....Its easy to miss the correct timing hole in the flywheel ,all goes to pot after that :(
 
Itu Ini said:
Sorry for not including this in my description earlier.
It smoked so bad .... white smoke that makes eyes water. I might have a picture somewhere in my phone .... will post it here if I find it.
Click to expand...
White smoke? Sounds like coolant in the combustion chamber. FIP timing is critical, modulation should be 50% with the engine temperature at 95C. Loss of the needle lift sensor will not affect the modulation or stop it idling. If the car has a MAF, try unplugging it.
 
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