Series 3 driving on front wheels only

dag019 said:

Obviously there are other considerations to this problem, but considering the history she has had with it in the short time it has been in Exert (judging from your other posts) a stern word on treating an aging classic correctly might be in order. I no longer allow certain people to drive mine as they try and treat it like a modern car and have no mechanical sympathy whatsoever!

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There was a program on BBC recently where 8 celebs were given classic cars and entered into a historic rally in Asia. By the end of the first day the two rappers who had a Hilman Imp had destroyed the engine through total ignorance and only the shear bullet proofness of the Morris Minor had saved that from a similar fate. The Mini didn't last long untill it was put on it's roof. Only Noel Edmonds seems to have the slightest idea how to treat an old car, his MGB made it to the end unscathed.

well the new diff is on and filled with oil, so far it looks to be staying in.

so we have rear wheel motion whoo hoo

took it round the block and there now seems to be a huge amount of play in the steering wheel, you can move it from the equivalent of 12 to four on a clock face which came as a bit of a shock, seemed to happen within a few feet of leaving the drive and did make the trip quite interesting, so I guess I shall be trying to see what that is tomorrow.

Get the front axle up on stands and push/pull waggle wheels while looking for play in the system.Driving on the front may have pushed something past sellby date. Track rod ends [6 of ] swivel housing bearings/bush's, and wheel bearings to start with.

I usually leave all wheels on the ground, and get someone to sit in the vehicle and turn the wheel from side to side, while I hold the ball joints in my fingers, and then examine the swivel housings and wheel bearing play. A torch can be helpful while you are doing this, or a lead light.

Clunkbucket said:

There was a program on BBC recently where 8 celebs were given classic cars and entered into a historic rally in Asia. By the end of the first day the two rappers who had a Hilman Imp had destroyed the engine through total ignorance and only the shear bullet proofness of the Morris Minor had saved that from a similar fate. The Mini didn't last long untill it was put on it's roof. Only Noel Edmonds seems to have the slightest idea how to treat an old car, his MGB made it to the end unscathed.

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Only cause his wife fixed the fanbelt wit borrowed tools..

Coming on good, as well as the ball joints checking as turboman says also the splined drop arms on steering box and relay if the pinch bolts are loose causes lots play

and there was me hoping for a day off

I could try the two man way today if my lad gets up before mid afternoon, weekdays I am on my tod mostly and it is dark now by the time people get home.

well found the fault, the nut holding the lower end of the drop arm was just about falling off, looks like the diff failing was a blessing in disguise.

tightened it up as much as I can, as it is a castellated nut should there be a split pin on there? can't see a hole

do you need to put a torx bolt or something in the end to get the nut on really tight?

suburban said:

well found the fault, the nut holding the lower end of the drop arm was just about falling off, looks like the diff failing was a blessing in disguise.

tightened it up as much as I can, as it is a castellated nut should there be a split pin on there? can't see a hole

do you need to put a torx bolt or something in the end to get the nut on really tight?

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should be if its castellated ,remove the nut and check to see if hole is hidden by an old pin been sheared off, what parts is this series drop arms are held on to the relay shaft by a pinch bolt ie bolt and nyloc

that arm that goes from the steering box to the rods, the other end from the one you need that special tool thingy to pull off.

mine just has a castellated nut holding the track rod end on

hole found, new split pin in - looks like there wasn't one in there unless it had come clean out - sorted, whoo hoo, road test and fill up then off to Exeter tomorrow.

I suspect it was knocked loose by driving the front wheels. 4wd is ot supposed to be used above 30 mph on the road and only for short periods as the front props have UJs not CV joints. I know the main reason is the lack of a centre diff but the UJs make a big differnce too.

It is UJ's in the front axle that limit front wheel drive use on hard surface Rob.I recon it's what you ment.

tottot said:

It is UJ's in the front axle that limit front wheel drive use on hard surface Rob.I recon it's what you ment.

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Yes, but I made a meal of saying it! I think its a bit of both, the front UJs and the solid centre drive but when you turn a corner on tarmac with the front axle engaged you know all about it.

Yep,you can feel the push/pull in the steering wheel.

Rob / tottot , re front axle ujs are you talking about transmission wind up in 4wd on tarmac when no wheel slipping occurs or do you see problems say with rear prop removed then a problem just driving on front wheels as it has ujs rather than cv joints, and is speed restrictions required in this case

I don't think its wind up, but it shakes the steering quite hard once you get near full lock (which on a Series is just pulling out of a T junction) because the angular acceleration on UJs is not contant (hence constant veleocity joint). UJs work on a prop shaft because they are lined up so that one cancels the other out, the the diff means than on a long curve the front UJs would come in an out of sync as one wheel turns faster than the other. I suspect that what happens when the axle is not being driven is that the diff corrects for this by turning the front prop faster and slower. I don't see it as huge problem unless going fast where it will shake the steering and could knock a few things loose. Rover engineers obviously knew as they put on a speed recomendation and replaced the UJs with CV joints for the 90/Defender so it could have front drive at speed. Were any front wheel drive cars built with UJs? One possible is the Citroen Traction Avant but I have a feeling they had CV joints (anyone know/got one?).

I know the weird steering feeling when in 4 wd on tarmac and the how it can judder a bit when cornering which I put down to the rear wheel locked and perhaps wanting to turn more or less than the front one , I don’t see this juddering when driving on snow as the wheels should slip (prob been over 30mph) , I had not thought the ujs could cause an issue being so small , the other thing is the front wheels spinning fast with that momentum and then changing the direction of steer so it’s like spinning a bike wheel holding each end of the axle and you can feel the resistance to the centrifugal forces , I wonder how much of this you can feel in the steering wheel and if if would make a difference if front wheels driving or being pushed by rears

I think Rob's expanation as to why you get UJ knock only when the axle is driven is pretty spot on.
The force you are referring to is gyroscopic precession,but as the wheels are fixed to the axle and the axle to the vehicle then what force is developed by the spinning wheel is resisted by the greater mass of the vehicle with little if any effect to the steering

steve2286w said:

I know the weird steering feeling when in 4 wd on tarmac and the how it can judder a bit when cornering which I put down to the rear wheel locked and perhaps wanting to turn more or less than the front one , I don’t see this juddering when driving on snow as the wheels should slip (prob been over 30mph) , I had not thought the ujs could cause an issue being so small , the other thing is the front wheels spinning fast with that momentum and then changing the direction of steer so it’s like spinning a bike wheel holding each end of the axle and you can feel the resistance to the centrifugal forces , I wonder how much of this you can feel in the steering wheel and if if would make a difference if front wheels driving or being pushed by rears

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its the ujs you hardly notice if they were cvs