Dramatic engine failure

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B

Bellie

Member
Posts
12
Location
Carlisle
Just had the tractor tow me back home. 500 yards from home I lost power but the revs went full on. I quickly stopped and turned the engine off and removed the key - to no effect.

Chucking smoke out the back and on full revs - the road became lost in a cloud. All I could think off was to stand well clear.

The engine ran for about 4 mins and then just died away.

I'm guessing the turbo blew a seal and sucked oil into the engine to run it to death.

Now back home - I'm guessing all is lost. Its a 53 plate TD4 so probably condemned to the scrapyard.

Won't get chance to brave a good diagnostic til tomorrow.
 
Certainly sounds like death by turbo. Not good news I'm afraid :(

About the only thing you can do with a runaway is to jam it in top and try and stall it or if that doesn't work tear the air intake hose off and cover the intake to starve it of air.....if you're brave enough.
 
Death by turbo - sums it up nicely.

I never thought about trying to stall it. I think I got confused and panicky when I had the key in my had and the engine was still revving the knackers off itself. One of those WTF! moments for sure.

Shame really as the bodywork and the rest is ok. I don't think I'm up to a rebuild so it might have to go away on a low loader : (
 
Definitely diesel runaway. It's not very common, but does happen.

If you are quick, it is possible to release the turbo hose clip. This will starve the engine of its fuel (oil). I had this happen on my work Iveco spec lift a few years back. Dumping the clutch didn't work. Luckily I had a Stanley knife to hand, so slit a boost pipe. The engine stopped afer a few seconds. I was even able to drive it back to the yard, albeit slowly. So if you are quick and know what to do, runaway doesn't have to be terminal.

A usable TD4 engine can be had for about £250. That's by far the cheapest way of getting it back on the road again. ;)
 
Argh! Always sad to hear of the demise of a Freelander, especially such a dramatic one.

Experienced bods, any idea why this happens? Bad luck, skipping too may oil changes, blocked breather filter?
 
I'm guessing all is lost. Its a 53 plate TD4 so probably condemned to the scrapyard.
Click to expand...
:(

i always have a stanley knife and rag to hand .. just in case ..

a.i.shutoff valves can be had ..
https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=air+intake+emergency+shutdown

at a guess ..
wouldn't be too hard to make one ..
that could be closed off from within the cab
( edited to add ..
maybe an egr valve could be modified to do the job ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Last edited:
What symptoms should the owner look out for before it goes mad and runs oft? Like using a lot of engine oil for many weeks/months before runaway happens?
What preventative maintenance can be done to reduce the risk of a run away diesel?
I assime yer can squart a CO2 fire extinguisher in the air intake to stop it running? That's if the air intake is easy to get to.
 
hd3 said:
:(

i always have a stanley knife and rag to hand .. just in case ..

a.i.shutoff valves can be had ..
https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=air+intake+emergency+shutdown

at a guess ..
wouldn't be too hard to make one ..
that could be closed off from within the cab
( edited to add ..
maybe an egr valve could be modified to do the job ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Click to expand...

It would be possible to modify the EGR valve, or a bypass kit by adding some sort of butterfly valve. It would need careful engineering though.
Most VW engines have a butterfly incorporated into there EGR valves from the factory. VW say it's there to make the engine stop more smoothly. But it does serve as an runaway prevention system too.
Hippo said:
What symptoms should the owner look out for before it goes mad and runs oft? Like using a lot of engine oil for many weeks/months before runaway happens?
What preventative maintenance can be done to reduce the risk of a run away diesel?
I assime yer can squart a CO2 fire extinguisher in the air intake to stop it running? That's if the air intake is easy to get to.
Click to expand...

Often there are no warnings to turbo seal failure. There might be slightly more oil in the intake pipes than usual, but that's hard to detect.
Runaway can happen when the compressor wheel seal suffers catastrophic failure, as opposed to increased leakage.

I'd assume that a CO2 fire extinguisher sprayed into the intake might work. However removing the fuel is the best solution. Hence cutting the boost pipe is the fastest way to stop it.
 
Most VW engines have a butterfly incorporated into there EGR valves from the factory. VW say it's there to make the engine stop more smoothly. But it does serve as an runaway prevention system too.
Click to expand...
interesting .. might look into that :)

What preventative maintenance can be done to reduce the risk of a run away diesel?
Click to expand...
i would think ..
regular oil changes
making sure the crankcase breather is working properly
( see ENGINE BREATHERS in this link
( http://www.approvedturbo.com/wp-content/uploads/ATC-Oil-Leak-Troubleshooting.pdf
and letting the turbo cool down before shutting off the engine
if the engine has been tuned up to a large extent .. keeping an eye on exhaust gas temps be advisable
for that a pyrometer is often used

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maybe ( * as in i don't know for sure ) using a fully synthetic engine oil might reduce the risk
as it has a higher flash point to mineral oil ..

" Even the best petroleum oils will have flash points only as high as 390 and 440 degrees F. Some actually have flashpoints as low as 350 degrees. For today’s hot-running engines, this is not nearly enough protection. Just about any synthetic you come across will have a flashpoint over 440 degrees. Premium synthetics can have flashpoints over 450 degrees F with some even reaching as high as 500 degrees F. "
( from .. http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2012/11/breakdowns-flashpoints-and-other-reasons-to-change-oil/ )

* have googled it .. but yet to find out at what temps a diesel combustion chamber gets up to
although have some info somewhere as to normal-to-dangerous exhaust temps for a turbo
( based on pyrometer readings )

Edited to Add ..
i just image googled "turbocharger seals"
and they look like piston rings .. so ..
i imagine what happens .. if the turbo is not cooled down prior to shutdown
oil .. in particular a mineral based one .. gets burnt onto the seals
( coked ) .. and the sealing factor is damaged as a result ..
and/or ..
if the oil is old and past its usefulness .. that would lead to worn seals

( i've never seen a turbo in its separate parts on a workbench )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Last edited:
hd3 said:
interesting .. might look into that :)


i would think ..
regular oil changes
making sure the crankcase breather is working properly
( see ENGINE BREATHERS in this link
( http://www.approvedturbo.com/wp-content/uploads/ATC-Oil-Leak-Troubleshooting.pdf
and letting the turbo cool down before shutting off the engine
if the engine has been tuned up to a large extent .. keeping an eye on exhaust gas temps be advisable
for that a pyrometer is often used

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maybe ( * as in i don't know for sure ) using a fully synthetic engine oil might reduce the risk
as it has a higher flash point to mineral oil ..

" Even the best petroleum oils will have flash points only as high as 390 and 440 degrees F. Some actually have flashpoints as low as 350 degrees. For today’s hot-running engines, this is not nearly enough protection. Just about any synthetic you come across will have a flashpoint over 440 degrees. Premium synthetics can have flashpoints over 450 degrees F with some even reaching as high as 500 degrees F. "
( from .. http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2012/11/breakdowns-flashpoints-and-other-reasons-to-change-oil/ )

* have googled it .. but yet to find out at what temps a diesel combustion chamber gets up to
although have some info somewhere as to normal-to-dangerous exhaust temps for a turbo
( based on pyrometer readings )

Edited to Add ..
i just image googled "turbocharger seals"
and they look like piston rings .. so ..
i imagine what happens .. if the turbo is not cooled down prior to shutdown
oil .. in particular a mineral based one .. gets burnt onto the seals
( coked ) .. and the sealing factor is damaged as a result ..
and/or ..
if the oil is old and past its usefulness .. that would lead to worn seals

( i've never seen a turbo in its separate parts on a workbench )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Click to expand...

This will tell you how hot is too hot ;)
http://www.dieselhub.com/performance/egt.html
 
i might be scrapping my td4 soon..lost reverse gear and cant be bothered with it anymore.....i cant think what possessed me to buy it in the first place....its nice drive on the rare occasions it does not break.goes great forwards,put my trailer behind it sunday and moved a car with it.just have to be careful where i park,still using it every day.
i have a few days off work next week and my go car hunting.....or get my suzuki vitara mot tested
 
xamtex said:
i might be scrapping my td4 soon..lost reverse gear and cant be bothered with it anymore.....i cant think what possessed me to buy it in the first place....its nice drive on the rare occasions it does not break.goes great forwards,put my trailer behind it sunday and moved a car with it.just have to be careful where i park,still using it every day.
i have a few days off work next week and my go car hunting.....or get my suzuki vitara mot tested
Click to expand...
Is it an auto?
Has the gearbox oil recently been topped up/ changed?
 
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