Dodgy Brakes

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gipsybilly

gipsybilly

Member
Posts
83
I have bought a swb 2a soft top and am really pleased with it. But the brakes are very poor. A quick looksee shows it has series 3 hubs and 2a drums. Could this cause a problem or are they compatible. Its a single unassisted system.
 
gipsybilly said:
I have bought a swb 2a soft top and am really pleased with it. But the brakes are very poor. A quick looksee shows it has series 3 hubs and 2a drums. Could this cause a problem or are they compatible. Its a single unassisted system.
Click to expand...
Doubt if that is a problem. More likely worn or contaminated brake linings, worn drums, hydraulic issues, or poor adjustment.

Go round jacking up the wheels and adjusting as per the manual. If not, remove the drums one at a time and have a look inside, the problem will most likely be obvious.
 
The hubs are identical so far as the brakes are concerned and the drums are now sold as the same for both S2a and S3. Yes the later S3 have different wheel bearing sizes and larger studs, but this does not affect brakes. As above, most likely full of oil, badly set up and hard linings. Set up right the std brakes will lock the wheels.
 
Just adjust them first, if used often they need constant attention
Adjust them until the shoes lightly rub the drum and leave them there, if you adjust them so there is no rubbing the pedal stroke will be way to long

Compared to normal cars they are pretty poor
 
I refused to accept that series brakes were inherently poor. OK it took at least a year of working through bit by bit but now my LWB drum brakes are a match for any modern vehicle. I also drive a Merc and the pedal travel, force and stopping are near identical. The only difference is fade because the Series is still drum brakes.
That means:
New adjusters
Modern resin high friction linings (amazing) not the metal loaded rock hard stuff on 90% of the Series brake shoes
Braided flexys
New hub seals and lands
New drums
The biggest servo that fits without mods, the early 90 one.
Yes it was quite a bit of work, but it has made the biggest difference to how the vehicle drives and the joy of driving it out of all the work I've done. We did London / Cornwall and back over this half term, loaded with gear, and the brakes were never an issue.
 
I agree, that in good condition, drum brakes can be pretty good.

Brake fade can be an issue - I've done quite a bit of heavy towing with IIA and III, and care / forward thinking is needed IME. I passed my test in our IIA, and we had a III as well - the III never had the brakes of the IIA :confused: ( still go the IIA though ;) )

Any other issues are down to lack of proper maintenance - this has been covered above :) - I've liked all the above posts because they tally with my experience.

post # 6 contains fine advice - deffo use modern linings - deffo fit a servo - remote or otherwise .... and carefully inspect all the pipe work - I've seen quite a few "new" cunifer pipes which have been fitted so poorly ( normally kinks in bends :rolleyes: ) that they went in the bin :(

I'd also recommend the Zeus disc conversion - if your pocket can stand it, then it is worth having.... search on here ;)
 
rob1miles said:
I refused to accept that series brakes were inherently poor. OK it took at least a year of working through bit by bit but now my LWB drum brakes are a match for any modern vehicle. I also drive a Merc and the pedal travel, force and stopping are near identical. The only difference is fade because the Series is still drum brakes.
That means:
New adjusters
Modern resin high friction linings (amazing) not the metal loaded rock hard stuff on 90% of the Series brake shoes
Braided flexys
New hub seals and lands
New drums
The biggest servo that fits without mods, the early 90 one.
Yes it was quite a bit of work, but it has made the biggest difference to how the vehicle drives and the joy of driving it out of all the work I've done. We did London / Cornwall and back over this half term, loaded with gear, and the brakes were never an issue.
Click to expand...


Got a link for the linings?

I believe early 90 servos are like rocking horse poo?
 
lynall said:
Got a link for the linings?

I believe early 90 servos are like rocking horse poo?
Click to expand...
Doubt if they are as rare as Clayton deWandre inline servos, as fitted to my 6 cylinder 109".

The brakes on that were awesome, though. 3 inch wide TLS drums on the front.

Brakes on our Petrol Series aren't too bad either, and that is just the standard non servo system. Pulls up pretty sharpish if you push hard enough on the pedal. To be fair, the vehicle doesn't do more than about 65mph flat out, and is quite light unladen,so the demands on braking are less than on a modern car.
 
Thanks for all the comments, they tally with my own thinking of replacing as much as i can afford to with new parts. There are some strange wear patterns on the shoes so that was the reason for my question. Two servos came with it so I might fit one. The chap I bought it from had been told the brakes were as good as they get, shame that notion persists as they are really poor. I would like to know where to source the good quality shoes from.
 
Even if your Series brakes are in perfect working order they are still going to be poor if you are comparing them to a modern hatchback, I'm guessing your emergency stopping distance is going to be around twice that of a brake assist, ABS and stability controlled modern car. Its all about modifying your driving habits and relentless maintenance.
 
I've had a very good experience with Borg and Beck brake shoes. I did a lot of research and spoke with a number of tech departments. B&B put me through and I was able to talk with their expert. They use a modern resin lining that's not loaded with metal, its soft and high friction. I compared it with the Mintex I had fitted and its much softer. The surprise is that 5000 miles on I've only had to adjust the brakes once so its wearing OK. Even seems to fade less, pedal pressure is about 50% of what it was. One of the problems is that a lot of the new linings are specced to an EU standard, but its useless as it is aimed an wear so the shoes are very hard, they have to be within 10% of OEM friction, but that means they are often 90% but last forever. I wanted 120% and replace every 10k miles and that's what I got with the B&B except that they seem to be lasting better than that.
 
rob1miles said:
I've had a very good experience with Borg and Beck brake shoes. I did a lot of research and spoke with a number of tech departments. B&B put me through and I was able to talk with their expert. They use a modern resin lining that's not loaded with metal, its soft and high friction. I compared it with the Mintex I had fitted and its much softer. The surprise is that 5000 miles on I've only had to adjust the brakes once so its wearing OK. Even seems to fade less, pedal pressure is about 50% of what it was. One of the problems is that a lot of the new linings are specced to an EU standard, but its useless as it is aimed an wear so the shoes are very hard, they have to be within 10% of OEM friction, but that means they are often 90% but last forever. I wanted 120% and replace every 10k miles and that's what I got with the B&B except that they seem to be lasting better than that.
Click to expand...
I am just about to buy my shoes for the rebuild, just had B&B cylinders delivered as I wanted something reasonable quality.
Is there a spec or part number for the shoes you are using, I would rather than good brakes than very long lasting ones as well.
 
I got mine from "partsinmotion" on ebay. £31 per axle set. Get the RTC/STC numbers:(Double check these!!!)
11" TLS Front RTC3417
11 SLS R STC2797
10 SLS R STC 2796
Go to the partsinmotion ebay store and put the number in the search box - for the store (not at the top). They will come up (I just checked.)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/carpartsinmotion?_trksid=p2380057.m570.l113337
They arrive the next day or 2nd day, very good service.
 
Mine is the six pot with the same brakes as the V8. B&B website say the part # is BBS6007 but is not available. I am getting close to needing shoes, probably by the end of the month, so it would be handy to be able to source some.
 
Just wanted to update on this thred as I finally got round to doing the work. New master, slaves, adjusters, flexis, shoes and a couple of brake pipes that sheared. To be fair all the components I took off were pretty good. Anyway brakes were just as poor. Rebled and adjusted master cylinder push rod and I am starting to see improvement. I think there is a little trapped air somewhere and the push rod will need a little fine adjustment. I will upgrade them in the future but now at least they stop. Thanks for all the input.
 
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